E V Augustine

Council does have a Unit Safety Director on staff. I have never seen or heard any indication of a Council Enterprise Risk Management (ERM) Committee. After a cursory read of the cited document, it does present a broad risk assessment algorithm and fortunately specifies the involvement of subject matter experts. Rather than ponder the risks of a developing and instituting a camp driver training program I returned to the concerns stated in my posts. Lake Erie Council has a mandatory policy that summer camp staff tow troop trailers over owned land to the respective troop campsite. Vehicles used are owned by the adult staff performing the work. This amounts to towing 75 - 100 trailers owned by as many different entities. As the troop trailers are in the temporary custody and control of Council employees this circumstance creates a bailee liability for Council. Generally this form of insurance coverage in not included in general commercial liability policies. I would expect this matter could be addressed by a phone call to Council's insurance carrier. The annual premium might be more than a few loads of gravel.

Six years ago I proposed a solution to the concerns you expressed to be applied at the other Council owned camp. There the camp driving policy was more restrictive and the roads even less well maintained. The attached Driver's Competence Award concept was submitted to Council and ignored. I even had a Scouter with a CDL willing to teach the courses. Drivers Competence Award.pdf

There is a Scout camp in northeast Ohio that used a farm tractor towing a hay wagon to haul troop gear into their campsite. Staff does not handle troop gear. I am not sure the practice continues. I have been told it took hours to get into the campsites. At the northeast PA summer camp I attended as a Scout in the middle 1960's we walked our personal gear in over a box truss footbridge straddling a creek. Then everything you needed for the week would fit in a Yucca pack. The current "suggested Scout gear list" barely fits in a 90 liter plastic tub.

yknot, your thought would hold true if vehicles towing trailers were the only ones on the roads. In an earlier post I wrote that vehicles transporting people and their gear are allowed access to campsites on entry and departure. Adult campers may drive in and park on the road during the week if they have limited mobility documented on their medical forms. Given the typical distribution of one vehicle/trailer combination to about 10-15 passenger vehicles per troop at camp, management's justification gets pretty thin pretty quickly. From the postings so far I am encouraged that the practice of camp staff towing troop trailers into the campsite is unique to Beaumont Scout Reservation.

I agree. There is a staffer posted at each campsite to greet and assist incoming troops, then once camp is set take the guys on an orientation tour. A 10' x 20' gravel pad at each site near the road would would prevent any difficulties. But, as I wrote in an earlier post, gravel costs money. In the current system troops arrive at the campsite with personal gear then wait as much as 2.5 hours for their trailer with troop gear (tents) to appear. This year in a camp leaders Zoom call the camp director discussed the importance of working quickly to set camp. Apparently staff is inconvenienced by the delays. To me this smacks of defending a bad decision. InquisitiveScouter suggested finding another camp. That's in the works.

The goal is control and to minimize road and camp site grounds maintenance costs. Gravel costs money. Beaumont is occupied by 22 tent sites, 12 lodges, a pool and a large office and dining facility. Undeveloped areas are wetlands and facultative wetlands. The rest has poor drainage. The three main roads have a gravel surface. The tent site clusters are accessed by moderately rutted dirt roads. Camp management claims troops towing their own trailers in cause damage to roads and sites due to lack of familiarity with conditions. However, troops towing their trailers out at week's end apparently do not. Vehicles transporting people and their gear are allowed access on entry and departure. Adult campers may drive in and park on the road during the week if they have limited mobility documented on their medical forms. One of our camp leaders has two bad knees. A friend might loan me his surplus deuce and a half for the week. A compliant solution.

There is another layer. We rent a trailer from a national truck and trailer rental company. The parties to the rental agreement are well defined and documented in the contract. A third party using their vehicle to tow the rented trailer puts me in material breach of the contract and voids the purchased damage waiver and contents insurance. In the event of damage or worse I would be on the hook and then have to pursue council and the inept driver. That would be after I had to explain why I breached the contract. Oddly enough the solution is let the units bring in and park their trailers in identified spots in the campsites. I know they refuse to consider that.

Beaumont Scout Reservation has instituted a policy where summer camp adult staff using their personal vehicles tow all troop trailers from a parking lot near the public road to the respective troop's campsite. The towed distances are about a mile over gravel roads. Council's stated goal is to control trailer placement at the campsites. They move 15 to 20 trailers a week during the season. On leaving camp at week's end the troops tow their own trailers out of camp. I been told that councils would or should have some form of insurance covering damage to the trailer, its contents, and personal injury occurring while in the control of camp staff in the event of negligence. It seems an errant staffer's claim, "I did the best I could" would be a perfect defense. I am interested in hearing if other summer camps have the same policy, not about designated parking but operation of the trailer by camp staff.

I suspect the unwarranted delay in updating the Eagle Scout certificates results from the lack of diligence by all parties involved. Further, I do not believe this results from a change in presidential administration. These delays have been going on since the third quarter of 2024. I recently attended the Eagle Court of Honor for a Scout who completed the first semester of his college freshman year before receiving his certificate. In my own troop a Scout completed his Eagle Board of Review March 10, 2025. The documents were submitted to the council the next day. To date he has not even received the letter provided in an earlier post. A further complication is that the Eagle Scout insignia set is a controlled item sold at the Scout Shop only on presentation of the certificate. This week I went to the Scout Shop to purchase his insignia. I had the Scoutbook Troop Recognition Report showing his rank date and my own Eagle Scout card from 1970. My thinking was that if the purchase were denied for lack of proper documentation, I would claim the purchase as my own to replace my insignia that had been lost. Fortunately, there were no difficulties with the purchase as I was not the first to effect a solution. The Scout is now planning his Eagle Court of Honor.

The Range and Target Activities Manual released 9/3/2024 defines commercial firearm range as: A “commercial firearm range” is a supervised facility that offers a controlled environment for safe firearm practice. It will provide shooting lanes, targets, and may offer equipment rentals and training in safe firearm handling and marksmanship. Standard operating procedures are required for each firearm type used on-site. Scouting’s range and target activities must follow all of Scouting’s range and target activities policies or range standard operating procedures that are equivalently stringent, including no variation from Scouting’s limitations on firearms used. These ranges may be operated by a licensed business, a government entity or a nonprofit. BSA's definition would not exclude a private club with appropriate facilities registered with the state as a Corporation for Non-Profit in good standing. As far as the state (and for that matter the IRS) is concerned the entity is a commercial enterprise. Registration with the state triggers applicability of state rules for shooting ranges addressing the panoply of operational and safety concerns. Well organized private clubs typically have standard operating procedures and safety plans going beyond regulatory minimums. I suspect BSA's reliance on the term "commercial firearm range" is intended to exclude a bunch of guys with access to a farm field or some woods up the hollow.

Unfortunately my troop has had to function on the basis of who has the assets in possession. The troop was chartered by a Catholic church for 71 years. The diocese closed the church as part of a consolidation program. A week or so before the official closing date the gear was relocated to a storage facility and the funds held in the name of the Troop remained. We were subsequently chartered by a parochial school formed in the consolidation. Now four years later the school trustees have decided we need to move before January 1, 2014. (Insert new thread here.) Its deja vu all over again. Fortunately the troop has access to a fair number of trucks, strong backs and a stronger sense of self-preservation.

A request for an extension to complete Eagle requirements after age 18 mst be based on compelling reasons beyond the control of the Scout. Current advancement guidance finally memeorializes that the Scout is responsible for the information in the Handbook and presumably can read a calendar. The common sense concept expressed in multiple instances in the guidance cuts both ways. In 8 years as district advancement chair the vast majority of discussions I have had on this point boil down to the Scout's failure to choose working on things that will lead to making Eagle rank.

You could look at Dolly Sods Wilderness Area near Laneville, WV. The National Forest Service and US Army Corps of Engineers have good information and mapping on their web sites. Dolly Sods is a plateau of about 50 square miles at about 4,000 feet elevation. Topographic relief is almost 800 feet in the southern valleys; 400 ft in the north. The trails are rocky. The vegetation is sub-Alpine with heather covered valleys in the north and bogs near the streams. Tree cover tends to be Spruce with dense canopy only in the valleys. A late October trip could very well experience below freezing daytime temperatures and snow brought in by 30 mph winds. All in all it is a great trip. Good luck. Eric Augustine, SM Troop 287 Lakewood, OH

Gentlemen, Before we can be accused of male centric responses; ie. taking care of one of our own, consider the consequences of "ta-ta" tapping reported to the police. The Scout Oath and Law have little currency in an arraignment hearing. Given that a Scout is thrifty, I have no funds accrued for BSA related legal defense. Consequently I would take all prudent action to limit my personal legal exposure. Given that its about $40k to the court house steps, as a volunteer adult leader why do I need to care if the perpetrator makes next rank or if he has a positive Scouting experience should I become a named defendant? You may wax prosaic about the Scout Oath and Law and national policy here, but that will not stand as defense in many legal jurisdictions.

Scouters, Having served as District Training Chair during program years 2001 - 2004 I can assure you that council training record keeping has been abysmal. The SE authorized zero staff hours to record unit leader training credits. I had three Wood Badge beads before I was shown as trained on my unit roster. The current emphasis is Youth Protection Training necessary for renewal/recharter. All to be completed and recorded electronically through the national web portal. Absent electronic documentation the non-compliant individual is removed from the roster. Since the pilot top leader training program has been initiated it is possible to generate a "not trained leader" report through ScoutNet. The report shows training completed for the individual's current leadership position completed electronically. Seat in the chair training records are left to the vagaries of the local council. The next trick coming in 2012 is that top unit leaders have completed position specific training. (For you Ask Andy fans read as SM, CC and COR.) I doubt much attention will be paid to other than required training records. It is surprising what an $18.5 million judgment will do. There are unsubstantiated rumors that G2SS will soon require patrol outings to have two deep leadership and a tour permit. While the rumored action appears to be a near term solution to LDS Scout unit patrols setting the woods on fire it seems a cheap fix and limiting factor to the rest. Best advice is to narrowly construe current published national guidance and document everything else. Eric Augustine

Eagledad (Barry), Things have changed. An $18.5 million liability settlement in April 2010. A May 24, 2010 memo making Youth Protection Training mandatory with an effective date of June 1, 2010 requiring submittal of proof of training to initially register, and automatic removal from the roster at recharter for failure to comply. Assuming the facts initially presented are accurate the youth committed an assault resulting in physical injury. Policy provides that the perpetrator be removed from the unit roster for disciplinary reasons and a YPT report be made to the Scout Executive. Then someone can sort it out. It would be easier if this were 1963 where the perpetrator might end up as the only guest at a blanket party on the next camp out. At that time most folks would have thought things worked out about right. Before we become too concerned about the perpetrator consider the lesson taught by how the incident is handled. Reportedly there are two units involved. Absent appropriate action perceptible to the youth members the conduct is accepted leaving the possibility for subsequent occurrences by the perpetrator, other youth and/or retaliation. In this case I would not forsake the ninety and nine.

dhendron, Your most recent post indicates you've taken some action, but from from your statements it appears that you've not taken the notification steps mandated by Youth Protection Training. You are probably aware that YPT became mandatory June 1, 2010. Given this emphasis it would be best if you followed through with all anticipated notifications before the train leaves the station. Those registered leaders present at the incident may have personal exposure due to failure to notify particularly since the acts resulted in an emergency room visit. Although from your account it appears the Scout's parents are not overly excited I would remind you of the adage that revenge is a dish best served cold. Unfortunately I've seen lesser incidents (no physical harm) rise to civil and criminal action initiated by the Scout's parents.

Scoutfish, You did not mention the brand you purchased. Lodge Manufacturing Co. has an excellent web site (http://www.lodgemfg.com/) that compliments their products where you can access information on use and care of cast iron cook ware. The odor you describe on initial heating was residual shop oil, a petroleum product, which should have been washed off with hot water and dish detergent before seasoning. Since you do not mention that anyone has keeled over yet the oven is probably OK now. There are two schools of thought on cleaning. Scrape the oven out and heat it burnig the residual food black, scraping it again, oiling it inside and out and reheating. A second method is to fill the oven with plain water and bringing the water to a boil until the food residue floats to the surface. Dispose of the water, oil the oven and reheat. The latter method seems to work best with pastry and tomato based sauces. Try using Crisco instead of oils. Yes, canola and peanut oils have a higher cooking temperature but the Crisco seems to penetrate more effectively. Melt the Crisco and apply it to the surface until it is shiny, not dripping, then heat to 300 - 325 degrees. The oven should not smoke. Excessive oil of any kind left on the oven may turn rancid. Good Luck.

Untrained folks are conditionally approved and notified, again, of the training requirement indicating they will be approved on reciept of the training verification. New counselors are similarly advised then registered and run through the background check. The individual is finally approved and notified when everything is complete. Cumbersome at start up the procedure has a low error rate.

moosetracker, Unless National modifies the input for the MBC code 42 roster to include updates from internet training reports it would be futile to track YP training status independently. It would require reconciliation of the adult unit and district rosters with the code 42 roster and one would still miss those only registered as counselors. Given the recent court decision I imagine the data management solution would be implemented sooner rather than later. The Greater Cleveland Council Advancement Committee has been requiring that MBC new applicants and renewals attach a copies of their YPT cards to their applications since 2009. Ensuring compliance is straightforward, no YPT no MBC. In this scenario compliance is required up front relieving the district chairs of an almost impossible record keeping and enforcement job. Some might view the practice as draconian, but individual compliance is a matter of 45 minutes on the internet.

Serving as advancement chair I've been able to get text files from the council registrar for the MBC code 42 roster and unit rosters which are reasonably easy to format and upload to versions of Troopmaster district management software. The MBC roster is checked against the district list with edits returned to the registrar. Council maintains an MBC listing on the web site for those counselors who have expressly consented to the posting of their contact information on the Internet. The system works reasonably well. Training records are another matter. I've seen the not trained reports distributed at the district meetings and they are accurate to the extent the training was completed through the national web site. I've not yet seen a report addressing Youth Protection training status for merit badge counselors although I'd like to think it is possible to generate the report. Records for Scouters completing training the old fashioned way are sporadic at best. I did not show as a trained Scoutmaster until I had my third bead. With National's pilot program setting top leader trained status as a condition for recharter I imagine the data collection and reporting will improve.

Basementdweller, my post was not a suggestion of what you additionally needed to do, but rather a reminder to add to your list. Folks who do what it takes are most often trained.

Basementdweller, Well spoken. I would suggest that you add a few more Good Old Boy activities: SM SMA Trained, Wood Badge, Red Cross First Responder, Red Cross CPR, Wilderness First Aid, Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat and Climb on Safely all completed in addition to the hour a week. Being admitted to the network is not tough. It is a stepped process of reliable participation, training and increasing leadership responsibilities. Kind of like what a Scout goes through in his time with the troop.

As a guess I would say the transport authorizations/restrictions would apply to council and district events, including summer camp under the circumstances where a Scout leaves the event early. In an ideal world the scheduled drivers would be listed on a tour permit. At council summer camps the forms are turned over camp management. On early release the driver would complete a second form authorizing transport which is required by National Camp Standards. Since they've issued the forms they are stuck with matching up the names similar to the process at a school. I have difficulty thinking there is applicability on a troop event level as I do not need another job.

Jeff, District Advancement and Recognition Chairs should be maintaining lists of merit badge counselors as well as the Council registrar. There are two types of counselors, those that teach only in their unit and those that will teach any Scout. Typically the array of badges covered is 85% of those offered. I would like to think getting the lists is only an email away. P.S. The Scout should probably be making the calls.