E V Augustine

In reading this thread I've noticed it has been stated a few times that all eligible boys in a ward are registered in the Scout unit and that the practice tends to overstate membership numbers. I can't help but wonder if that is the genesis of National Council's current definition of active.

Thanks, I was beginning to feel like an artifact. The blue card system works because a written record is completed in triplicate at the time the work is finished by the people directly involved. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In discussions with other district advancement chairs about conversion to a primarily electronic system the sticking point has always been what is the fail safe? As I had written earlier the Greater Cleveland Council does not require blue card submittal with the Eagle package, where others do. An earlier poster is correct in that the validation is done before the board is scheduled. I really am not arguing against a paperless system with appropriate safeguards. If there is a problem with merit badges on submittal for an Eagle board of review it is dropped in the laps of the Scoutmaster and district advancement chair to solve. The GCC districts maintain counselor rosters noting dates of service and merit badges authorized for years, in my case the records I was handed six years ago went back another five years for a current total of 11 years. It is a simple matter to check dates. In the case of out of council counselors, the code 42 roster is a national database and the council registrar has been responsive to those requests in providing contact information. Fortunately the few times these issues arose they were decided in the Scout's favor because the Scout's claim was verifiable. As for unit advancement coordinators checking the qualified counselor list that just means someone other than the Scoutmaster contacts the district advancement chair. Here the lists are distributed to the Scoutmasters for further internal distribution. Updates are provided as necessary. Usually they involve the addition of troop only counselors which are forwarded to the respective troops. As for a Scoutmaster or relative acting as a single source for requirement sign off there are probably terabytes of server space occupied by the argument. I do not imagine it will be resolved soon.

evmori, The original post stated, "His Dad, the SM, Signed off absolutely everything the Scout did in scouting. Merit badges, rank requirements absolutely everything." So much for adult association, which in Scouting guidance assumes more than your father. Another perspective is that a merit badge counselor's qualifications are to have more than a working knowledge of the subject. Thinking about the range of skills necessary to competently teach 21 topics this dad would be a truly remarkable individual or he managed to get by the district advancement committee. Because the circumstances described are not expressly prohibited does not make it good practice. The post does not indicate the Scout was denied rank. A council requiring the submittal of blue cards with a candidate's rank application is a second means of verifying the counselors were registered when the merit badges were completed. An element not addressed by electronic databases. Obviously the council advancement committee and council executive approved the practice. Further, it is not unique among councils. Our opinions on the matter are irrelevant as neither of us serve in the Columbia-Montour Council.

Brent, You're right the document hierarchy I cited is no longer in the advancement guide. Perhaps I've been around too long. However, given the Greater Cleveland Council still uses blue cards the practice continues as a means of verifying claimed badges in the event the question arises. Out of curiosity does the council directly input the merit badge data or does the unit still prepare and submit an advancement report? How are input errors on the camp report resolved? Thanks,

Eagle 92, The advancement committee guide still calls out the Handbook and blue cards as primary proofs. With regard to merit badges the stated order is blue card, unit advancement report, merit badge card. The blue card is evidence of personal contact between the Scout and counselor, the only two relevant parties. I am not familiar with units or council camps using computer print-outs in lieu of blue cards, so I can't really speak to what the primary documents are or what would be proof in the event questions arose. I would imagine some document has to be generated for data input unless the Scout's member number were tattooed on as a bar code then scanned as each requirement were completed I'm fairly computer savvy and found the more different people lay hands on a database the higher the error frequency. In my personal experience I had my third bead before council records showed me as trained for my unit position. I would not want to leave an Eagle candidate in those same hands.

The requirement to bring blue cards to your Eagle Board of Review has been around for a while. I brought them to my board in 1970 and my home council, Columbia-Montour still requires it with the rest of the documentation. Obviously the task is not unduly burdensome. Failing to present the blue cards for a given board date just means the Scout is rescheduled. The blue card is primary evidence of merit badge completion. If the Scout, unit or counselor can produce a signed blue card the issue is settled, assuming the counselor was registered on the signature date. Electronic data is convenient but subject to compounded errors absent consistent oversight. To get back to the subject, if in fact a Scoutmaster/father did sign off on the significant majority of the Scout's requirements to Eagle it represents a failure in troop leadership.

B, Good points I missed in the first read. I've not yet had a trained and competent youth or adult leader pull out of a high adventure trip raising safety issues. If that were to happen I guess my first response would be, "So who's your replacement?" putting the onus on the person backing out. Not quite Lyndon Johnson's version of moral suasion but I would not be bashful about asking it in front of an audience. As for filling a slot to get to a minimum number it comes down to marketing both in the troop and Scouts/Scouters outside the troop. Thanks, Eric Augustine

Beavah, We have not had a significant problem with cancellations. When they do happen we operate on the concept of sunk costs. Participant fees are collected in a timely manner and paid. Adults and Scouts canceling receive refunds only to the extent they are made to the troop. If there are flat fees portioned out among the participants the canceling party is only refunded monies to the extent they do not make others pay more. This is made clear up front every time. This is applied down to a Scout's share for the patrol food. So far we've had no complaints.

The G2SS Policy on the Storage, Handling, and Use of Chemical Fuels and Equipment prohibits the use of homemade alcohol stoves such as the Pepsi can stove. It classes isopropyl alcohol, denatured ethyl alcohol, and ethanol as not recommended. Taken together one may purchase an alcohol stove and use it with the fuel it was designed for. In BSA's Scouting Community Richard Bourlon, BSA's safety director, indicated the policy change was due to "high profile" accidents involving alcohol fuel handling. From his comments the policy changes were not made on the basis of material properties like flash point, vapor pressure or combustion product toxicity relative to those of recommended chemical fuel. Ultralight backpackers may keep their Trangia stoves and/or purchase a Caldera Cone system which comes equipped with commercially manufactured can stove identical in configuration to one on http://zenstoves.net/Stoves.htm. Alcohol fuels used in accordance with the stove manufacturer's instructions. Recognizing that I could be accused of hair splitting, the subject revision seems to be a knee jerk response to bad press. It is easier to prohibit use of a device than motivate a volunteer population to effectively train existing safety practices.

The merit badge process still includes how the Scout discuses the merit badge he wishes to attempt with his Scoutmaster and is then given the name of a qualified counselor by his Scoutmaster. In the circumstances stated in the original post the smell, not aroma, of home cooking is overwhelming. So much for adult association. In the Greater Cleveland Council blue cards are not presented at the EBOR. Were the circumstances known the issue would merit a few questions.

Summer Camp merit badge counselors must be registered as merit badge counselors (code 42) with the Boy Scouts of America; Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures. FALSE 2010 National Standards for Cub Scout/Boy Scout/Venturing Resident Camps, M-73: ...A letter from the council advancement committee is provided approving merit badge counselors. Since council camps must comply with the mandatory camp standards which do not require registration of counselors under code 42 many do not and will not register them. Sauce for the gander anyone?