dsteele

Eamonn, where were you when I needed a district chairman who would protect my time? Back in the day when I was a D.E., my home phone number was printed on my business cards and no one who had one would have hesitated to call me at home on a Saturday. Even if the matter could have easily waited until Monday. For my part, in my youth and enthusiasm, I wouldn't have minded the call. Things have changed a bit, and that call would irritate me, so I thank momof1 for not making it. Now, to the matter: Eamonn's advice is sound. The Committee Chair and Unit Commissioner are the resources you should use. It sounds like what's going on with your cubmaster is what I think of as the worst thing a volunteer can do -- not commit or say no. If the cubmaster hasn't decided to return or not return, it leaves a lot in limbo. It's well after the start of school and the pack should be in full swing. It is better to have a volunteer say "I'm not going to do the job." and life moves on than to have them say "I might do the job" allowing no one to step forward. Maybe is not an acceptable answer to a yes or no question. Yes, I think it's acceptable to refer those with concerns to the Cubmaster. However, I agree with Eamonn that a call to the Unit Commissioner (or District Commissioner if there's no unit commissioner) is appropriate. They exist as volunteers to serve the needs of the unit. DS

Rooster: I don't apologize for the policy. I don't apologize for those who vehemently support it -- in fact, I am required to support it and I do support it, both professionally and personally. I also don't apologize for those who fight against it. They have the right to do so even if I believe they are wrong. I apologized to an individual who's apparent first experience with this forum was one where there was wide contention and dissent. It's not a pretty thread no matter how polite many of the posts were. The first thread I read on USScouts I found offensive in its manner and tone and haven't spent much time there since. I found a similar thread on this forum and felt welcome enough to stick around. Also, Rooster, you put "narrow minded" scouters in quotes in your post and it looks like you're attributing the quote to me. I have never called anyone narrow minded and absolutely do not believe that those who agree with the policy of the Boy Scouts of America and I support are narrow minded. I also take offense that you say I want to have my cake and eat it too. In closing, if I may quote myself: "I apologize that you found one as polarizing as this one to read early on." I was not apologizing for the BSA policy nor regreting the policy. It would have been better if Cubscouterfather had read a nice one about a board of review or joining cub scouts and gotten to know us outside of this issue before plunging into one that divides the group and raises the ire of all parties. DS

FloridaScout: I come to these forums from a slightly different perspective. Like many, I was a Scout. Like many, I was a Scoutmaster and a volunteer in the BSA. Unlike many, I am a professional Scouter. We have a saying in the Scouting profession -- when pressure needs to be brought, it should be "professional to professional and volunteer to volunteer." To clarify -- if someone has a problem with a DE I supervise, I expect them to bring the problem to me and I will talk to the DE. If someone has a problem with a volunteer, I expect them to bring the problem to the volunteer who "supervises" that position and that volunteer to lean on the volunteer "under" them. Yes, you should talk to your Scoutmaster about the problem with your Senior Patrol leader. However, I think you should also talk to your Senior Patrol Leader about the younger Scouts' problems with his example. Be respectful, but firm. Let him know that the boys admire his position and need more leadership from him. Do not, under any circumstances, call him an idiot. Think it through before you have the conversation. Let him know your concerns. If he does nothing, keep trying to help the troop in any way you can, but give him the opportunity of hearing your views. Remember that even though he's older than you, he's still a Boy Scout and is learning -- or should be -- too. Your views may well teach him a valuable lesson in leadership, and that's what the BSA is about. Good luck. Keep us posted. Dave

Packsaddle, Go ahead and accept the unsolicited donations. However, the donor should realize or be told that they are not (probably) donating to a 501 © (3) organization -- in other words, it is not tax deductible (probably.) FOG -- yes, the CO owns the unit, but does not own the funds raised under the name of the Boy Scouts of America. Most individual units are not 501 © (3) organizations -- which is why there is no limit on troop treasuries and how much money they can carry from year-to-year. So I would not think that many troops would want to be non-profits in their own right. Have you ever looked at tax form 990? It's a pain in the tuchas. DS

Dan: We're definately DINKS. I'm not a DE anymore, so I almost have an income While our inability (the fault is mine) to have children saddened us 10 years ago, we've learned that I'm kid enough for my wife -- handling me is enough burden for her, poor thing. And I've learned that I can have all the gizmos and toys I want and still manage to pay the bills and invest in our retirement so I can open the quilt shop I want to open in 25 or so years. Life is good. DS

Thanks to your support, I have decided and taken action toward helping others with Essential Tremor -- even though it's a small start, I like to think it's a start. My Kiwanis club passed around a list of speakers and topics we would like to hear in the upcoming year. I wrote my name as the speaker and Essential Tremor as the topic. The chairman got the list and asked me "what's essential tremor?" I held out my shaking hands and said it's the neurological condition that causes this." No anger on my part, but no understanding on his part, either. I'll give him a brochure next week. I hope he lets me speak. It's a difficult thing to understand because it causes only inconvenience and misunderstanding and not death. Therefore, there really aren't sad stories to tell and no one dies from it. However, there is no small amount of pain. I'll never be able to ... (Jeez. I can't even go down the road of what it prevents me from. I won't allow myself. It isn't productive.) What is productive is to hope that someday I'll be able to be as steady in the hands as the people I see every day. That would be cool and I've never had it.) Funny story: I was considering the surgery that puts a probe in the head of the one with tremors and a pace maker in the chest. Even went so far as to tell my wife that I was going to do it. She read the literature and said, "there's a 1% chance of death if you go for it and a 5% chance or paralysis or loss of speech if you do." I took that to be a 99% chance of tremor free and a 95% chance of tremor free with speech -- but she didn't see it that way. So I'll wait for the surgery and take my pills like a good boy. Thanks for listening. DS

Thanks for the support, Eamonn. It means a lot. I don't intend to quit the BSA and get very angry at the likes of those who would have us ignore the Lord our God -- in whatever form we may believe. I'm not going to quit the BSA and I don't believe Eamonn will either. The BSA isn't about to quit us by abandoning God. I don't know what Merlyn and his ilk (doesn't that sound like a slimy word?) want -- but he isn't going to get it from me. Try saying the Boy Scout Oath without Duty to God or the Law without reverent and you'll find a big hunk missing. As I said before, God is not an option. DS

If your troop has a license from your state allowing them to solicit charitable contributions (A fund raising license) then the answer is that there is nothing to stop them. The odds, however, is that the troop is not licensed by the state as a stand-alone agency to solicit chatitable contributions. Units are not allowed to go out any way they choose to raise funds. There are multiple perils for the council -- and council troubles eventually translate into unit troubles, so there's mutual need for concern. The reasons vary by locale -- but don't asssume that what you're doing that is against the rules is only against the rules because the "big boys" don't like it. Find out the reasons behind the rules. More people make sense more often when we ask questions. DS

Speaking as a member of what used to be called a "childless couple," (my faultn not hers) I'm a bit leary of the fact that no one seems to know the parents. Doesn't mean anything's going on or not going on, but something is triggering my "spidey sense." I see nothing wrong with talking to children in plain sight outside one's door. I do see something wrong with a Cub Scout and Boy Scout soliciting funds with nothing in return to buy an x-box. As has been said before in this thread . . . something is fishy. DS PS -- I don't think it's child abuse, but it may be adult abuse.

Trailpounder: Did you mean to post that as a private message? I guess it doesn't matter. Yes, I wrote a column in my weekly college newspaper called Machiavelli's Corner. I was a big fan of Machiavelli at the time and still think he was one of the few philosophers willing to speak the political truth at a time (15th Century Italy for those unfamiliar with his work) when people were killed for such things. Machiavelli's name hardly invokes warm and fuzzy feelings, by the way. I was young and loved to drum up controversy. I hope my writings no longer do that. At any rate, I got hauled into the college president's office a couple of times, got punched at a party once or twice, and won awards from Northwestern University and the Chicago Tribune for a few of the columns. And, yes, I was a member of Lambda Chi Alpha (LXA) for three and a half years and President of the Greek Council (when the campus was 60% greek) for a few months until I resigned rather publicly. But that was quite a while ago. DS

Welcome to the forums! National doesn't have a problem with the way you're proposing. If you'd like an excellent resource (granted it's tilted toward popcorn) for program planning and budgeting as well as computer management of Scout Accounts for you -- go to www.trails-end.com and look for the Ideal Year of Scouting page. You can create users and passwords and set up your unit to where you can plug in your program for the year, costs, dues, etc. and it will calculate how much money each Scout needs to make in fundraisers (it will say popcorn, but I'm pretty sure you can use other fundraisers if you want) they need to come up with to pay for their entire program year. It will also allow you to set up and manage Scout accounts which the boys can check online to see their balances. Their first names are never published . . . but the last I looked, they were able to see the balances in all the other boys' accounts as well as their own. Trails End says it's a motivator for the lower dollar-amount Scouts. It's free and worth a look. DS

Okay. Thanks for the perceived nod of respect, NJ. Just know (and unfortunately I'm serious about this) that although the title of Assistant Scout Executive sounds almost impressive, my "office" is a cubicle in the basement of the Scout Office (just like the ones the DE's have) only I have a square hole over the cubicle in the ceiling. This is because the urinal in the men's room upstairs sometimes doesn't stop flushing and the water literally drips into my cubicle. It happens about every 4 months and sends me dashing up the stairs with a mop to clean it up ASAP. So much for the fancy title. At any rate, the money does not belong to the chartered partner. If the unit fails (does not recharter,) the money raised under the name of the Boy Scouts of America reverts to the local council. Equipment owned by the unit reverts, with the agreement of the charter partner and the local council, to either the charter partner or the local council. The district finance committee is responsible for approving the Unit Fundraising Permit (which is an often un-used document, but it should be used.) If the unit is meeting all the rules on the back of the permit, the committee should sign it. If the committee refuses, it should be taken to the council level. In short, the unit and its use of funds raised by its members are up to the unit. If someone steals from your unit, you're on your own to prosecute, etc. It's up to the unit to determine the dispersment of Scout accounts, etc. The council service center will be happy to give you some guidance and ideas, but ultimately the decision has to be made by the unit. BTW -- I keep a golf umbrella in my cubicle to cover important papers when the toilet leaks on my head Be Prepared. DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

I'm not going to delve into argument over stuff I can't control. But, from reading the discussion, I thought I would share with you the general feeling of most professional scouters during the Supreme Court case. It was "Either way the decision goes, we're going to take a hit." We're taking a hit. So Philadelphia loses it's council office. San Diego loses Balboa Island. United Way pulls funding. Enough people have enough love of this organization to make it continue to happen without abandoning our values. If I am wrong about that, the Boy Scouts of America will no longer continue to be the organization that I grew up in and dedicated my life to. I feel very strongly that if the Boy Scouts of America ever changes it's belief that it's members must beleive in a higher power, I will resign my commission (same as quitting my job) and move on as best I can. I support all the membership standards of the Boy Scouts of America, but I take the stance on God very personally. God is not an option. DS

The district advancement chairman is charged with keeping the list up-to-date and recruiting counselors. Not the Council Service Center and certainly not the boys. DS

I agree with KoreaScouter's assessment. The way I see it is this: 1) There's a million dollars on the side of being the sole "survivor" no matter what it takes to get there. 2) On the other side of the scale, there's a code of conduct one has lived for at least eleven years that is the Scout Oath and Law. She's on t he island and is a very public display, by wearing the uniform regardless of how it happened, of the values represented by the Scout Oath and Law. Her best shot is the one with the slimmest odds; winning the game while living the Scout Oath and Law. That would be getting #1 and #2. Odds are, however, that she will end up with either #1 OR #2. I think 2 is better than one, but 1 and 2 make three and I like odd numbers! Anyway, although I'm not a fan of survivor for the very reasons that KoreaScouter mentioned, I will watch this series until the two Scouters are gone. I want to add that if I had a troubled teenager being counseled by the guy who stole the gear from the other tribe and called himself a pirate I'd bust his chops big time when he got home. DS

Someone, I'm sure, will help me with the source -- I think it was a Scoutmaster Handbook from the late seventies . . . But it illustrated to me very deeply the idea of a good Scoutmaster. My old man took it to heart when he was Scoutmaster. It began with a description (first person, I think) of a parent with no Scouting background visiting a troop with his son. It described the boys running the troop while the leaders meandered and looked like they were doing nothing. There was no "leader" in sight. It wasn't until the Scoutmaster's minute that the man knew who the Scoutmaster was. To me, that's a good Scoutmaster. It isn't that he/she isn't doing anything -- it just isn't obvious. I'm not making this up, am I? If it is a figment of my memory I still stand by it. DS

Would you guys mind cooling it off a bit? Some of us are trying to sleep. We had a good Join Us Night (unified school night,) but not the great one we needed. I, for one, am trying to sleep. Please yell at each other another time and leave the rest of us in peace. Goodnight all. DS

Thanks guys. I thought it had happened before and that's why I brought it up. I think there's a reason the BSA requires a college degree for it's professionals and doesn't care what field it's in. One of the reasons is that after a few years of full-saturation as a professional, we forget everything execpt for the BSA stuff I was going to end with a quote from Plato, but I forgot which color I was thinking of DS

Phil: Thank you for the honesty of your post. I, too, welcome you to the forums. I apologize that you found one as polarizing as this one to read early on. I hope you stay with us for a while. You may have expected to be attacked for saying you are a gay man. I would expect that you will not be attacked for your sexuality on this forum. From what I've seen of most of its members, honor is treated with honor. I am a professional scouter with the BSA. I have been a professional for nearly fifteen years. I support the policies of the Boy Scouts of America -- if I didn't, I would resign. Period, end of report. Although the BSA will not register a homosexual as a leader, there is no reason you can not support your son as a parent in the program. Work on the advancement requirements with him -- even sign the book, just as any other parent of a Cub Scout would. Help out as any other parent would -- arrange the blue and gold, etc. You're not eligible to be a Den Leader or committee member or any other registered position, but that doesn't mean that your son can not have a meaningful cub scout experience and that you have no role. You do. Be a father, Phil. Everyone needs a father and the post you typed indicated that you are a caring and good father. Best of luck. DS

Not pedantic, but redundant! That made me laugh out loud (which is LOL to the die-hards.) Click once, Eamonn. I'm the one with tremors. What's your excuse? By the way, good for OJ! DS

Well, Hot Dog! Thanks NJ. Now that I know he's running, unless he has an affair with an intern, he's got my vote! ;)0 NJ, you'll probably know better than I do, but I vaguely remember hearing about a president or two who didn't want to run for re-election . . . but I can't remember who or when. Trail Pounder -- what's your friend's name? How do you know about Eureka College? It seems to few do. You can private message me if you'd like. A friend of Eureka is a friend of mine. DS

Overtrained said what I was going to say before I could say it. It seems the National Scouting Museum in Irving, TX is your best resource. From my experience it seems that they have volunteers who research questions such as yours. I don't have the museum's phone number at hand, but you can probably find them on the internet. Do not call the national office looking for it. They are different entities. I don't have any knowledge about the stars or a ceremony to give you. I'd never heard of them either, but sure like your idea. DS

The BSA system can handle the Scout who spends part of the time with one parent and the other part of the time with the other parent. The Scout would be registered with one troop and, as long as the troop he is registered with recognizes his achievements, etc. done in the other troop, there's no problem. As to your new Scout being active with another troop and the concern about insurance, don't be concerned. Insurance matters are tied to the boy's registration in the council, not to the unit to which he belongs. The exception would be if he paid his membership in a troop that is not covered by unit accident insurance and gets hurt on a campout. More and more councils are joining the accident insurance plan as a council, so the insurance concern probably doesn't apply. DS

Welcome to the electronic campfire. I checked the Registration Procedures manual and it was very clear. "Troop members (youth) may not multiple register in another troop." "May not" is underlined and in bold print. DS

NJ -- I''m not a liberal, nor am I a staunch conservative -- however much my liberal mother would disagree. I have no doubt that GW Bush will run for re-election, but he hasn't said yet that he will. That's all I wanted to point out. We can't make assumptions on his part. Running for re-election is up to him. And people wonder why professional scouters stay away from politics. It's technicalities like that that bother us. DS