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Obama Care Vs Affordable care act.

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  • #16
    I think trying to eat the whole elephant in one bite has been the worst plan yet. Phasing people into ACA via age cohorts might have been a better idea, especially if you started with all children 0-18. Yes, this would leave some families partially covered, but you have to start somewhere.

    Comment


    • #17
      How interesting is it going to be when Obama has to delay the individual mandate because not enough young people can/will enroll to support us old codgers?

      Since delaying the individual mandate for a year was one of the first bills the Repubs sent to the senate to re-start the Govt; this will expose the petty bullheadedness of Obama:
      "I refused to negotiate delaying the individual mandate back then, because that would have given the Republicans a 'win'. But let's delay the individual mandate now, because we have to fix it; errr because it's the right thing to do!"

      Comment


      • JoeBob
        JoeBob commented
        Editing a comment

      • moosetracker
        moosetracker commented
        Editing a comment
        We already know what your political parties belief is, it is repeated ad nauseam. Tell me why that makes you tthink you have a right to destroy the economy purposefully or at least threatening to destroy the economy in order to force demands that rather then going into normal negotiations over the budget you should have things all your own way, and then turn around and call that valid negotiation.. How many years would junior there have to work to fix you not raising the debt ceiling and causing us to default?..

        Yes, I know your political tea-party messiahs said it would have been no problem, may even help the economy.. They know much more then all the economists and the bankers, Wallstreet and buisnessmen who use to be fine with your group and now are demanding you be removed from the Republican party, or they will not continue to support Republicans.

        Now, the republican house will have to meet with the Senate and both debate and negotiate the budget on equal footing.. Now you are forced to work within the system.. Poor baby.. If you political party were not such spoiled brats I might even feel sorry for you.

      • JoeBob
        JoeBob commented
        Editing a comment
        Got anything to say about the ACA that doesn't involve slander or emotion?





        Something logical on topic?








        Okay. I'll check back later in case something comes to you...

    • #18
      The doctors I work with are in it because they want to treat patients, not make money. With the way things are now they A) can't treat patients like they want to instead having to see so many patients an hour to break even, and B) they are not even making enough to cover expenses with medicare/aid patients.

      Comment


      • #19
        Theory of Evolution (no scientific evidence to support it) assumes things continually improve as time goes on.

        Natural Law of Thermaldynamics (scientifically proven) says things continually disintegrate as time goes on.

        So, how's that political evolution thingy working out for you?

        Stosh

        Comment


        • packsaddle
          packsaddle commented
          Editing a comment
          You might want to try that again after you look up the word 'archeology'....and read the article I cited.

        • King Ding Dong
          King Ding Dong commented
          Editing a comment
          "after all biological evolution takes billions upon billions of years to come about. "
          Um, no it doesn't.

        • jblake47
          jblake47 commented
          Editing a comment
          So after a careful explanation of where I'm coming from, the responses are, go back and read some article and a nope, you're wrong on the unmeasurable timeline.

          Not much room left for any meaningful dialog.

          Sorry, gentlemen, neither answer leaves much to discuss. It might have been fun.

          It isn't going to keep me from commenting, which may indeed be the goal of this one-liner retorts and personal attacks by some, but it will pretty much curtail any serious dialog.

          By the way, there's a ton of stuff in my comments that warranted a stronger response back that I have received from others who propose evolutionary theory elsewhere.

          Stosh

      • #20
        By the way, a lot of CPAs are presently going through training for the up and coming changes. Has anyone talked to their CPA yet about how Obamacare is changing the way things are going? I don't think political affiliation will bias their opinion.
        Last edited by Eagledad; 10-21-2013, 09:34 AM.

        Comment


        • #21
          Well if ya listened to da Preezy today, the website is a resounding success because it shows how many people are interested in the program. Of course, the fact that we are all now required to buy insurance means that by definition about 313.9 million people should be interested.

          The fact that the central access to this program was not designed to handle the traffic anyone with half a brain should have expected, and was apparently built on arcane technology, is not only a major embarrassment but also an example of why government does little, if anything, better than a private sector driven by (gasp) profit and the things that drive it (efficiency, accuracy, etc...).

          Comment


        • #22
          Open Letter to President Obama:

          THANK YOU for not listening to those pesky stubborn Republicans who wanted to delay the individual mandate for a year. You delayed the business mandate all by yourself; but if you had 'negotiated' with Republicans and kept the government open in exchange for delaying the individual mandate, we wouldn't be witnessing the current meltdown of ACA Website.

          http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/20/op...sdouthat&_r=1&

          "Federal officials did not permit testing of the Obamacare healthcare.gov website or issue final system requirements until four to six days before its Oct. 1 launch, according to an individual with direct knowledge of the project.
          The individual, who spoke on condition of anonymity, described the troubled Obamacare website project as suffering from top-level management disarray, changing systems requirements and recurring delays. Federal officials did not permit testing of the Obamacare healthcare.gov website or issue final system requirements until four to six days before its Oct. 1 launch, according to an individual with direct knowledge of the project.
          The individual, who spoke on condition of anonymity, described the troubled Obamacare website project as suffering from top-level management disarray, changing systems requirements and recurring delays."

          http://washingtonexaminer.com/troubl...rticle/2537381

          If a fourth year of over-budget work on the website had improved it's ability to function, Obamacare might have survived. Since the website is often quoted as being the easiest part of ACA implementation, I look forward to many more interesting developments as your federal government attempts to improve on healthcare.

          Makes me look forward to dying!

          Is a 'Death Panel' an interview process? Do you pass or fail?

          Thanks!
          JoeBob

          Comment


          • jblake47
            jblake47 commented
            Editing a comment
            JoeBob,

            Get serious. It is common knowledge that every evil in the world is Bush's fault. His legacy of evil has been effective that even 5 years later, the administration hasn't made a dent. His reign of terror was so effective that even today, nothing can be done to fix it and probably will take another 3 years and probably another 8 after that, and then another 8 to start getting things back to normal. Even after all these years, people speak of Regan as if he was a god. It's tough to deal with such distractions. Every now and then one of these Republicans gets in office and it sets the liberal agenda back 20 years. It's awful!

            Stosh

          • moosetracker
            moosetracker commented
            Editing a comment
            dcsimmons - that's funny.. So Democrats were the union busters...

            Very true about unions, but some differences also.. #1 Our Government is in no way a Union.. It was made up to be a equal balance of power in seperate branches, most of whom are elected by the people (accept for the courts that are appointed by your elected officials).. Now if your in the minority of the governmental powers, it means stop having crappy ideas no one likes.. It does not mean form a union and hijack government so you minority with your crappy ideas can force rule the people.

            Another difference is that while on strike, they may be hurting the company but they are also hurting themselves as they don't get paid by their companies to be on strike (and yes hurting those who use the service).. The Republicans shutdown was not hurting those in Congress forcing the shutdown at all (except for their popularity in the polls, but they are in such a bubble they can't even see that.) Instead, they took others hostage and made others suffer.. And then when they saw parts of government that they did not like being shut down, they tried to reopen only what they liked in hopes of only taking hostage the parts of government they could happily not fund for years.. Thus again trying to force empirical rule..

            Our founding fathers tried very hard to set up a government where someone could not force a dictatiorship.. Republicans are attempting every dirty trick in the book to ignore this and attempt ot set up one anyway.

          • jblake47
            jblake47 commented
            Editing a comment
            I have a tendency to look to history for certain patterns and generalities that might give evidence of what road we are currently following. People today aren't any different than they were "back then" whenever that was. The over-whelming bureaucracy of the Roman Empire wasn't a whole lot different than what we see today and it doesn't take a historical scholar to see where that got them.

            But just in the course of our own history: at one point certain peoples were dictated to by certain other elites and our Founding Fathers broke that chain and told King George where to stick it. They set up a government where that process could not happen here. Okay, I'm fine with that. However, they "compromised" the whole issue of slavery which took the sacrifice of 600,000 people to resolve. Not a shining moment in American history by any sense of the word. But there were others as well that were held "captive" until they were rounded up and put on reservations or exterminated. Again one can see when free people are engulfed by a "superior" class of well wishers. Again, not a pretty sight. Then in the early 20th century, rich capitalists took over and everyone owed their soul to the "company store". That got resolved through unionization, and the total collapse of the economy in 1929. Soup lines in America? Yep, could happen again. The next abuse of power had to be settled with the Equal Rights issue of the 60's. The dragon's head thought to be extinct 100 years earlier reared itself back up. Yet with yet another power grab by the government itself, we find ourselves once more into the fray. The entity which was supposed to protect us from such tyranny has tossed out the Founding Father's ideals and now we all owe our souls to the government's nanny program. Slavery in one form or another simply doesn't go way and the idea of equal rights for all once again takes it in the shorts. Cradle to grave government cannot work, it never has and has proven itself faulty every step of the way. But does that stop anyone? Nope. So once again, the people will fall prey to "the powers that be." Amidst that struggle a few have found the American Dream set forth by the Founding Fathers, but that was supposed to be for all peoples, not just the elite few.

            Now that the US Constitution is open to whatever interpretation seems to be in vogue at the time, the more we can see what was once an ideal as nothing more than a pipe dream. It's going to be painful when this over inflated balloon bursts into flames, but whatever comes from it will be just like any other civilization since day one having to start all over from scratch.... to build a bureaucracy that will do the same thing. Did the Sumaritans think it would happen to them?, How about the Greeks? Romans? British Empire? Naw, they all thought at the time they were invincible to such catastrophes, they had "evolved" into the perfect form of government. They were all going to reign for a thousand years.... Well one almost made it but it was pretty pathetic in the end.

            How are we going to end up? Handwriting's on the wall. Better take some time to read it.

            Stosh
            Last edited by jblake47; 10-22-2013, 01:35 PM.

        • #23
          You Smuckka heads are so scared of the individual mandate. Don't know why, nothing will force you to pay it, the IRS can not go after you or enforce it.. Just worry that you don't overpay and expect a rebate. They may be inclined to take from that the penelty.. But I'm not sure..

          If all you guys wanted was to negotate and debate on FAIR ground you could have come to the table between May and Oct. when the Senate and House both had budgets and the House was asked 18 time to negotiate.. But NOOOOOO... You didn't have an unfair leverage.. The minute you shut the goverment down, and took it hostage.. THE VERY MINUTE.. then the house asked for negotiations to begin.. Now you get to go to negotiations without holding the government hostage and you are behaving as if there is no reason to negotiate..

          I had to look up your 600,000 Americans died.. The Civil war??? Geesh!!! Your still crabbing because you can't keep black slaves?? What a moron.. Oh.. Wait a minute, wasn't Abe Lincoln a Republican?? Having a black president must really get your prejudicial dander up.. Other then that, yeah I wish we had waved bye, bye to the South, you haven't added anything positive to the mix that's for sure.. You could fall apart in poverty and ignorance with only a handful of wealthy people in control and taking advantage of the downtrodden, and the North could have erected a border to keep the southern immigrants from trying to hop the fence for a better life.

          Comment


          • jblake47
            jblake47 commented
            Editing a comment
            Oh, but doesn't the tenets of liberalism promotes the class warfare of Marxism? It is really irrelevant what the lower classes say as long as the party and it's ideology is pushed forward? By the way, the US Constitution, back when it was still relevant to both parties states just the opposite? The Founding Fathers put the US Constitution and Bill of Rights out there to prevent such an abuse of tyrannical powers? Yep.

            It explicitly states that the US government has no right to compete with private sector and state decided endeavors and that's exactly what it is trying to do. When the citizenry sees this and says NO, it's an answer those who would like to wield absolute power aren't willing to accept.

            It's really sad that one wouldn't know the sacrifice of 600,000 Americans off the top of their head. I know it's not on the agenda of the liberal party, but get real, that sacrifice liberated millions of Americans to be able to pursue the American Dream. I'm not crabbing because I can't keep black slaves, I'm ecstatic that the Republicans set the abuse straight! I really don't care what the color of the skin is, the president needs to do the job. Nothing more, nothing less. And drag out your legal dictionary. Do the research, Obama is NOT the first black president, he's the first mulatto president.

            mu·lat·to audio (m-lt, -lät, my-) KEY
            NOUN:
            pl. mu·lat·tos or mu·lat·toes
            A person having one white and one Black parent. See Usage Note at octoroon.
            A person of mixed white and Black ancestry.

            As with Merlyn, one can name call they wish, but it doesn't change the reality. No dialog allowed, simply fall into lock step and follow the agenda of the party.

            Sorry, I don't buy the program. It's a religious tenent I'm not interested in believing in. The Southern Democrat ideology was the basis for slavery, not the Republican abolitionist ideology which set them free. Can't play the race card, it doesn't apply. Try something else.

            Stosh

          • dcsimmons
            dcsimmons commented
            Editing a comment
            Leverage os part of negotiating. Ever ask yourself why teachers never strike in June? Because the union only has leverage when they can hold children hostage in September.

          • jblake47
            jblake47 commented
            Editing a comment
            Yeah, but they're doing it for the kids. Gotta remember that. The ends justify the means when one looks into the sad eyes of all those poor kids.

            Stosh

        • #24
          I saw a video last week where a guy on the street was asking people who deserved the blame for the recent government shutdown, Obama or Bush. The majority said Bush. Low information voters blaming a guy who has been out of office for 5 years. Go figure.

          Comment


          • jblake47
            jblake47 commented
            Editing a comment
            People pose questions in a certain way on a survey so as to get the results they wish.

            Heck, I learned that 40 years ago in Psych class. They even taught us how to do it. But they also, at least back then, taught us how to do it correctly. A true scientific survey operates far differently than today's media "surveys".

            Question: Are all the political ailments of today a result of George W. Bush? (Yes/No)

            Question: Pick only one:

            The tenets of the Democratic Party
            The tenets of the Republican Party
            The leadership of the Democratic Party
            The leadership of the Republican Party
            Something else

            A true scientific survey deals with ideas and one's opinion of those ideas. Personal bashing is not a scientific survey in any sense of the definition.

            A good criteria of a scientific survey would be that everyone testing a certain hypothesis would garner pretty much the same results regardless of what group or individual was conducting the survey. +/- error would accommodate the slight variances.

            However, the wildly fluctuation between surveys confirms they are in no way scientific. Knowing this, I simply blow off the results as someone's propaganda agenda looking for some kind of credibility. (And seriously? It doesn't make one bit of difference who's promoting the agenda!) Uninformed listeners are generally unaware of this kind of pseudo-scientific deception.

            Oops, forgot to mention, they get around this deception by calling them polls and not surveys even though some toss in the +/- to give some kind of false credibility.

            Stosh
            Last edited by jblake47; 10-22-2013, 12:26 PM.

          • moosetracker
            moosetracker commented
            Editing a comment
            I knew that too jblake.. I might have posed it as a question, but the answer that the question was rigged to not allow the person to give any intellegent answer was obvious.. They may have thought they to get the survey to put the blame on Obama him being the only politician in Washington, yet they were surprised to find that regardless, it's the fault of a republican.

          • jblake47
            jblake47 commented
            Editing a comment
            It's getting more and more difficult to get legitimate truth out of anyone today. Inside The Belt has become such a snake pit of deception that I don't think they even know what's reality and what's not.

            This whole morass is going to make history as one of the worst we've had since say the American Civil War when they finally brought out the guns. Not that it couldn't happen again, God forbid!

            Stosh

        • #25
          Logic paraphrased form another site:

          Obamacare 's financial success depends upon:

          1. Healthy young people with part time, minimum wage jobs,
          2. buying something they don't see a need for,
          3. and can't afford,
          4. with money they don't have,
          5. while they're still eligible to remain on their parents' insurance until age 26,
          6. through a website that DOESN'T WORK!!!

          Ponzi or Pyramid?

          Comment


          • Brewmeister
            Brewmeister commented
            Editing a comment
            They just need to raise their debt limit and they can afford it.

        • #26
          99% of what our government does in the area of the nanny state is a Ponzi.... always has been always will be until the people call them on it. They won't though, they like the check coming in each month. It's free money anyway.

          Stosh

          Comment


          • Horizon
            Horizon commented
            Editing a comment
            Except local governments have NOT done a good job. We as a nation built a health care system over time with small parts that work against each other, including but not limited to employer provided (as a response to wage controls in WWII), ERs forced to take anyone, bankruptcy laws, limited numbers of physicians due to the AMA monopoly on residencies, separating the people from the cost, capitation replacing fee for service, and every increasing costs of miracle cures that have a barely statistically significant effect.

            NONE of this has ever been reformed by either party. Both parties have sat on their hands, since their health plan was always fine and dandy.

            As for fiscal irresponsibility, blaming it on Obama and the last 5 years is as fallacious as blaming it all on Bush and his 8 years. We haven't balanced the budget except under Clinton thanks to high rates and a tech bubble. We stopped paying for things with LBJ and throwing a war and an increase in social services without paying for them. Reagan signed onto lower taxes and higher spending, further kicking the can down the street. The Tea Party screams, but I don't see real proposals from them, along with an acknowledgment of the costs - the same way the Democratic party did not want to talk about the need to force healthy people to pay for insurance to make the plan work.

            A pox (that is not covered by insurance) on both of their houses.

          • JoeBob
            JoeBob commented
            Editing a comment
            Hzn: You forgot the lawyers and defensive medicine costs...

          • Horizon
            Horizon commented
            Editing a comment
            JoeBob - you are absolutely correct on that as well. A client of mine is a radiologist, ends up in court (not personally, just represented by his malpractice firm) once a month. Every lawsuit has to name every doc involved, and since he reads a ton of films - he gets listed, and removed constantly. Total nightmare.

        • #27
          CBS Uncovers ‘Serious’, ‘Incredibly Misleading’ ObamaCare Website Price Quotes

          The CBS journalist soon detailed the grossly inaccurate price quotes that came out of HealthCare.gov:

          http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.o.../#.UmgjePmsjTo

          Comment


          • #28
            Here is something I just learned from my CPA, if you don't get a tax return from the IRS, you cannot be penalized for not having health insurance. This is a train wreck that is going to happen and I'm really curious how DC will frame it so that folks like Moose will defend it on forums. I'm not being disrespectful, pragmatically the facts are hard to dispute and my kids will suffer from it all. Barry

            Comment


            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              I have already stated this a few times.. On this thread I know I stated it once before..

              Statment #23

              "You Smuckka heads are so scared of the individual mandate. Don't know why, nothing will force you to pay it, the IRS can not go after you or enforce it.. Just worry that you don't overpay and expect a rebate. They may be inclined to take from that the penelty.. But I'm not sure.."


              First your all crying about the individual mandate, Stop it.. Stop it.., Now your crying because it's not really a mandate.. Make up your minds what you want to cry about.. People can't buy into your fear tactics if you keep bouncing the retoric around like a ping-pong ball..

              Are there things that could be tweeked and improved on.. Sure, but I will trust the suggestions of someone who cares over the suggestions of someone who wants to destroy it. It's a step in the right direction is all..

            • jblake47
              jblake47 commented
              Editing a comment
              I kinda quit reading when I get to comments like "Smuckka heads". Sorry, bad habit of mine.

              Stosh

            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              Well, if you are going to panic over things that are not even true.. Smuckka Head is being nice.. I would call my own son or husband a smuckka head if they are not thinking rationally..

          • #29
            Moosetracker,

            Since you seem to be a fan of the ACA, please sell me on it. I would really like to know how this piece of legislation is going to make health insurance affordable for the anywhere from 20M to 50M folks who currently do not have health insurance.

            Comment


            • jblake47
              jblake47 commented
              Editing a comment
              If you want to know how all this cost stuff works, you need 3 cups and a pea. You turn the cups upside down, put the pea under one of them and voila! You can very easily see it it works. Don't worry about the details, it'll all work out in the end, trust me, the check is in the mail.

              Stosh

            • DigitalScout
              DigitalScout commented
              Editing a comment
              Stosh - It sounds like an individual for whom we built the social safety net. Surely you aren't going to be begrudge a disabled veteran who served our country and is now unable to work for the princely sum of $346 + $46 for food per week.

            • jblake47
              jblake47 commented
              Editing a comment
              To me it kinda sounds like a "safety net" for everyone whether they need it or not. The charity of every American can be counted on regardless of governmental intervention. The American population rose to the occasion in the aftermath of Katrina and Sandy and yet the complaint is not against the people but the nanny state government that made grandiose promises to get elected and then bailed on them when they needed it the most.

              Sorry, I don't buy the political solution for social problems as an appropriate method of dealing with it.

              By the way, I took in an alcoholic veteran into my home for two years trying to help him out. When the police came and dragged him out. I figured I had done enough. Does that mean I am begrudging a disabled veteran who served our country? Sorry, that emotional tear jerk plea isn't going to cut it in my family. My wife and I will be ringing bells for the Salvation Army this year instead of driving a drunk to detox at the VA hospital. That is after we do a shift at the community Thanksgiving Dinner down at the civic center. I'm not a cynical person, but I do like to put my time, talent and resources to the most effective means possible and paying taxes to fund stupidity as my charitable contribution doesn't make me sleep better at night. By the way, my wife and I's trip to Colorado this fall was cancelled because after contacting people out there they said they had plenty of help. Nice to know that my wife and I are not the only ones that do this sort of thing. There's a whole country of people out there that can do it better than bureaucracies.

              Stosh
              Last edited by jblake47; 10-28-2013, 09:01 PM.

          • #30
            Interesting read here about a poll of doctors conducted by the New York State Medical Society reported by the New York Post. They don't like it. http://nypost.com/2013/10/29/docs-resisting-obamacare/

            Comment

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