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  • And, Now They Want Elections....

    My committee is making my crazy. We have to amend the horrid bylaws JAG approved during our last re-certification as a private org on post, and one of them led the others in a foaming lemming drive over the Cliff of Reality. If we don't amend the document, we don't get recertified, and our pack ceases to exist. The language is mandatory as required by JAG, and there is absolutely nothing we can do to fight with JAG. We're overseas and what JAG says goes.

    I just needed somewhere to say this to people other than my husband and 17 year old.

  • #2
    Is there a question in there somewhere?


    • #3
      Don't vote. Have the COR sign-off on whatever the JAGs gave you. The rest of the committee can pound sand. Oh, except for the Chairman of the Subcommittee on Bylaws. He/she should have input. Don't have a subcommittee on bylaws? Oh darn!

      I am assuming the base essentially functions as your Chartered Organization, if not technically so. If my CO hands me a set of bylaws and says "here's how we want you to operate", my best response is "yes sir." I assume it works similarly in the military.


      • #4
        Also in the military...and I'm only tracking about 2/3 of what you said.

        Not following how the JAG got involved in the first place, but being overseas, you should probably have a represenative who talks with the base Commander on a quarterly or semi-annual basis.

        Yes, the base basically serves as the Chartered the Commander needs to either appointment someone to serve in the capaicity, or do it him/herself. As such, some of this "military drama" may get worse....or better.... but I can't imagine any commander who wants to explain to their base populace why the Scouting program just took a nose-dive because of politics.

        I woudl recomend the Chapel (which is where I assume your meeting) be the conduit for you to work through these issues. You should be defined as a private organization...but pretty sure Scouting also falls under non-profits as well. You may also want to call another a couple of bases, and see how their JAG interpits the rules.


        • #5
          thanks for the responses and sorry for the earlier incoherence. I'd like to be most unScout like to the ring leader of this.

          No, Garrison is not our CO. OMG, they would flip at that suggestion.

          We are chartered by a service org, the members of which are too frequently deployed, that is also a private organization certified to operate on post. No certification means you can't meet on post and operate as some kind of formal group or have on-post banking privileges. JAG is the certifying agency--basically make sure you aren't discriminating, embezzling, or fomenting the violent overthrow of the US government. (Yes, that prohibition is required to be in the bylaws.) Because we are overseas, things are different.

          Pounding sand...That's what I'm ready to do myself.

          How do you explain to people:

          1) That BSA units are not run like the Post Quilting Guild or the Post Gun Club? You don't get posted here by being stupid. These are the original "Show it to me in writing" crew, few of whom have much experience at civic organizational governance, as opposed to command and staff experience. (There's a reason the Spouses' Club never has a competitive election. You only get to approve the slate.)

          2) We want to teach citizenship but are not perfect little democracies.

          3) That there is a very real deadline we have to meet, which is sooner than we can argue over every comma?

          My plan is to get the minimal amendments to the bylaws passed necessary to get our paperwork accepted by JAG, then redo the whole shebang, and resign in order to prep for our PCS.


          • #6
            This is what happens when you create bylaws when you don't need them in the first place. Bylaws govern the administration of organizations including who can be members, what are the offices, who can vote, time and place of voting, how to amend the by-laws and how to dissolve the organization. The BSA (and the chartering organization within the BSA's guidelines) already tell you that so bylaws are not needed.

            But you've got them now so you're stuck with them I guess. Simple solution, just put what the JAG requires in your bylaws. You don't have to vote on it, you don't have to discuss it, you just put it in and inform folks that the bylaws have been amended by order of the JAG's office. It's no different than if the CO had told you to make a change in your bylaws, you just do it and if folks don't like it, you let them know that you'll forward their kids records on to whatever new unit they choose to send their kids to.

            The alternative is, of course, to find a place to meet that is not on the base.


            • #7
              Unfortunately, in order to have access to on-post banking services and permission to fund raise on post, we have to be certified private organization, and we have to have bylaws. That BSA doesn't require or recommend them is a non-issue.

              Going off is a complete no-go, as we simply are not prepared to deal with the German banking and tax authourities. There is no such thing as a tax-free non-profit in Germany. You make money, you pay taxes.


              • #8
                NIKE...Where are you located in Germany?
                I was Stationed in Aschaffenburg
                1 BN 7INF REG 3BD 3ID
                "Rock of the Marne"

                Banking Privileges???
                Boy Something has Changed Bank was Stateside. We were not forced to Have a Base Account. All US Military facilities had to Except any Legal Check or Debit/Credit Card....Only way your Banking privileged got suspended is if you wrote Hot Checks then Ya were cash only for the Suspended time.

                Our Scouts met at the NAF Rec Center..Which Sold BSA Merchandise because Base Exchange would not
                CO was a Stateside Church.
                JAG Never gave us any problems. We purchased what we needed through the BASE EXCHANGE for Basic Supplies and Commissary for Food as Individuals not as a Troop due the ETS and PCSing of Members to Frequently.

                Seeing as The Troop was Not a German Organization the Government was never involved in our Finances. Depending on the Exchange Rate it was better sometimes to Buy of Post..

                Our Scout Trips were Handled through ITT Tours.A Nonmilitary Company. Nothing like Having Everything Handled for you like having Charter Buses arranged.. We went to Italy for 7 Days for Only $259 each Participant. We took 2 45 Seater Buses. We Even stayed in Hostels many times for a Few Dollars a Night. A Few Times The Troop stayed at the Resorts in Garmish..Just booked as if a Normal Group


                • #9
                  Yes, things have changed, dramatically from your day. Did you know Third ID moved to Ft. Stewart in 1996? Deactivated the Victory Division.

                  JAG cares very much about everything on post due to a much more restrictive SOFA than was in effect when we were here just fifteen years ago.

                  We have two on post banks contracted to operate by DoD from large US based banks: Service Credit Union and Community Bank. With out a bank permitted to operate in Germany, no one can pay rent. Most everyone lives off post, everywhere. And without a letter from JAG, no Private Org can have banking privileges.

                  Trans-Atlantic Council maintains a shop in Ansbach still, and we also order from

                  The German government is tax hungry. They will tax anyone they can find. The German American Women's Club pays 50% tax on the earnings from the Pfennig Bazaar, since it is open to anyone who wants to come. Money that used to be used for community welfare grants in the American and German communities has plummeted. Staying on post keeps the TaxAmt off our back.

                  We make all our own travel arrangements and use POVs, TMPs, and contract buses. Since I've been here, our pack has gone to the Bastogne Historical Walk twice, the Normandy Camporee, and skiing at Kandersteg Center. My older son's troop has gone all over France, Germany, Switzerland, and England.

                  As for where I am...Let's just say the high end car industry is very important here.


                  • #10
                    Yea I keep up with the 3ID..

                    I was aware they deactivated

                    Wondering why people can not just answers questions?

                    Is your Location so top secret that you can not say where ya are?


                    • #11
                      Nike's afraid we might send former scouts studying there to the doorstep!


                      • #12
                        Good Lord, next you'll ask me my age!

                        I've given a lot of info about myself and my family on here over the years. If you knew me around post through Scouting, you'd know who I am.

                        As for people landing on my doorstep, not a problem! Just don't mind the mess while I get you some coffee and cookies.