When's too late

[mdutch]

When is it too late to revoke a rank advancment or a merit badge. Let's say that a scouts Star BOR was conducted in an improper manner (didn't have 3 Committee members from his troop, instead it had 1 CM, CC from another troop, and camp ranger). This is discovered at the scouts Eagle Board. Is that reason for denying him the eagle rank (ie. he never made star, so he can't be eagle).

Similarly, what if a scout worked on a merit badge with someone he THOUGHT was a merit badge councelor, but turned out really wasn't. Would that cause problems when going for eagle?

[bbng]

Has this actually happened? My immediate thought was that this is an adult error issue, not something the Scout did incorrectly, which to me means that everything possible should be done to protect the interests of the Scout who thought he was doing everything by the book. This is why I personally do all I can to know and use policies as well as encourage others to do so. I'm afraid I can't answer your question, but I'm sure someone here will have more help for you.

[OldGreyEagle]

Why would anyone first take steps to punish the scout when it was Administrative Rules that were violated? In all the discussions of this sort, the question seems to be pointed at the scout, what can we do to him, how can we take things away from him when it was adult misbehavior that caused the situation. How about suspending those adults "privileges" regarding any scouting advancement work.

 

As far as the scout goes, Boards of Review done with the good faith of the scout should be honored.

 

Merit Badges is another issue. Can a legitimate merit badge counsleor be found who can talk to the non-registered one and the blue card signed? WHat make up would be required? When we say its for the boys, it either is or it isnt

[Hunt]

It seems to me highly unlikely that a rank or MB would be "revoked" for these kinds of issues,unless they were extremely serious (i.e., if the scout falsified documents). From what I have observed, we must really depend on the trustworthiness of scouts and scout leaders anyway--for example, when you look at blue cards from summer camp, the signatures are often illegible. So will you question an illegible signature from an out-of-council camp that was signed five or six years ago? Will you try to find out whether a previous BOR was properly constituted? Is anyone going to look at old lists of MBCs to verify that the counselors were properly registered at the time they signed? And if you did, what would you accomplish? You'd deny ranks mostly to boys who actually did the work and depended on adults for the technicalities.

[jr56]

I agree with Hunt. The reality of the situation is once a Board of Review is conducted and the Advancement report is submitted to council, it is final based on the troops honor.

In reality, it is almost impossible to check if all blue cards are signed by properly registered merit badge counselors because every summer scouts go to out of council camps all over the nation, and have blue cards signed by staff members from all over.

 

[EagleInKY]

In these cases, it's problems created by adults not following the program, not the scout intentially tring to get away with something. So, no, I would not imagine anyone revoking the rank or the Merit Badges. If the boy was involved in a deception, then I think I would escalate it to the Council Advancement Committee for guidance.

 

I know of one BOR mistake that happened early in our troop. The Advancement Chair mistakenly involved an ASM on the Board. I didn't realize it until the BOR was beginning. I didn't have the heart to tell the Scout we couldn't do it then (it was for Tenderfoot). I reviewed the policy with the Adv. Chairman afterward and it hasn't happened again.

[Hunt]

Particularly for BORs, there may be a difference between "improper" and "invalid." Thus, a BOR with two committee members and an ASM may be improper, but it may not be invalid. For a MB, one might say that if the MBC was apparently authorized (i.e., provided by a BSA camp, identified by the SM), the MB should be recognized as having been earned. I wouldn't want to take this too far, and look the other way for numerous or serious flaws, but I think a rule of reason should be applied.

[mdutch]

Thanks for all of your replies. A friend of mine is in the situation (with improper BOR's and MBs) and will be going for eagle soon. Based on all of your reactions, I doubt that it will become a problem, especially since he and I are the only once who realize that this problem exists.

[nldscout]

First of all the Eagle BOR has no way to check and is not authorized to check on previous ranks. If the application is signed by council Rep as dates being ok thats all they see. They don't see MB cards or anything like that.

 

 

So how would they know?

[eisely]

I have never heard of a rank being revoked. Once it has been made a matter of record at the council level it is a done deal. The council relies on the unit to handle things properly and ensure that all the paperwork accurately reflects what happened. I don't know how one could fairly hold the scout responsible for the kinds of errors described unless one had clear and convincing evidence that the scout himself committed some kind of fraud. Even then it remains the primary responsibility of the unit to catch any cheating. Councils do not have the wherewithal to audit submissions from the unit. Councils even have difficulty recording accurately on a timely basis all the information submitted to them. How could they possibly check on these things?