New Scoutmaster needs advice

[Juggler]

I have been SM for about 8 months, and have just come back from a troop committee meeting. Some background - a couple of months ago, my son had a board of review for life scout, and did not advance. The review took about two hours. There was a troop committee meeting two nights later, and only one member of the board of review saw fit to attend that meeting; the advancement chair was conspicuously absent.

 

At the meeting tonight, during the advancement chair's report, he was talking about Eagle BORs, and in reference to the discussions that take place, he used the phrase, in reference to candidates who were sent out of the room - "let them sweat." Well, that really set me off, and I let him know that his attitude was inappropriate (Ok, I said a little more than that). He wound up apologizing to me and the rest of the committee for his remark, but I'm still upset. Back when I was doing BORs, I had heard other adults also use the phrase, but until my own son was involved, it hadn't hit home to me what the scouts go through when the adults are determining whether or not they advance.

 

Here's the advice I need: I'm considering asking the troop committee chair to relieve the advancement chair of his duties. Am I overreacting, or should I be concerned that the wrong person is doing this job?

 

 

 

[Bob White]

It's possible that the Advancement chair never learned the right way and is doing things wrong simple because that was how the person before him did it. rather than asking him to b removed (although it may eventually comt to that) how about getting him to agree to getting trained. A life Board should take about 15 or 20 minutes certainly not two hours. There are alot of things about his job that he probaly will be shocked by when he learns the right way to do things.

 

 

[orennoah]

I second Bob White's suggest and write to point out that you're in a bit of a spot, seeing that it was your son who had the problem. To many, rightly or wrongly, too much intervention from you right now will look like favoritism.

 

You are correct that something is wrong. A bit of pre-BOR tension is a healthy thing, but "let 'em sweat" is clearly the wrong attitude and, unless there is some highly unusual circumstance, two hours is way too long for any troop BOR.

 

- Oren

 

SM and Dad, but not at the same time.

[evmori]

A two hour BOR for Life? I've had major surgery that was shorter.

 

There is no reason a BOR for Life should last two hours. Bob is accurate in his post.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

Juggler

Hi and Welcome to the forum.

Of course in the cool light of day Bob is right.

I have no idea why people think or act the way this advancement chair has acted.

Training might work, it is worth a try. But if he still continues to act this way the committee should be thinking of finding a replacement.

Eamonn.

[Juggler]

My thanks to all that have taken the time to reply. I think the training suggestion is a good idea; and that's where I'll start.

 

[FScouter]

You might ask if the committee has a copy of the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures book #33088D. It has a good discussion about boards of review. The committee should also have a copy of the Troop Committee Guidebook as well.

[SWScouter]

The Grand Canyon Council has some resources for Scoutmaster Conference, BOR, and the Advancement Chairman. Some of it is taylored specific to the council and some people here may disagree with parts of it, but I think it is a good start. The three articles can be found at http://www.grandcanyonbsa.org/Su508advancprocess.php?Cat_IDz=21

 

SWScouter

[LPC_Thumper]

I feel fairly safe posting my comments about BoRs... I don't remember your name before, so let me just start by saying I'm a District Eagle Board of Review Chair (this is one of about 5 BSA hats I wear, not counting my "smokey")

 

The Council Advancement Chair invited me to handle this position after he learned that EAGLE BoRs were taking about 2 hours each. The former chair had lost sight of his role. What can you possibly talk about for 2 hours? How do you keep from retesting, and certifying the Scoutmaster conference if you talk to a Scout that long?

 

After review of the District Committee Book, especially in regards to Eagle Boards of Review, I decided that our goal would be from the time the Scout first sits down, to the time he knows what is going to happen next should be about 30 minutes. And you know what? It works fine. Now if 30 minutes can do the trick for Eagle, less time than that should be needed for Life.

 

The hard parts of Boards of Review are when the Scout doesn't measure up. According to the handbook, you should list in writting what steps need to be done to be successful, and another Board should be scheduled.

 

I share these points only to show what training can bring this situation. The only skills we test are:

 

1 - What's the Scout Law

2 - What's the Scout Oath

3 - What do these words mean to you now that you are trying to be an Eagle?

 

All the other questions fall in the categories of:

 

"What's your favorite...?"

"Why do you think Scouts what you to...?

"What didn't you like? What would you change?"

And so forth. You see, you can't run too many of those before you run out of things to say. With questions like this, most canidates get geared up and start talking about the life as scouts.

 

Good Luck!!

[Fuzzy Bear]

Juggler, (*Bear with me)

 

As a SM, my perspective has been:

The Chartering Organization and the COR are responsible for the existence of the troop. They are periodically informed of the progress and are given a yearly review.

The Troop Committee may come from the CO and/or the parents that do not belong to the CO but the COR indirectly approves/disapproves all selections.

The Committee Chair is in charge of the Committee.

The CC derives much of the agenda from the SM.

The SM attends Committee meetings but cannot vote.

The SM is listening and acting as a representative of the PLC but is not a voting member of the PLC.

The PLC is listening to and representing the views of the individual Scouts, making the views of the individual Scout important.

This interrelatedness gives importance to all, including the TC, CO, and the Troop Leadership. It is their support role that enables much of the program but it remains the Scout's program.

Accepting that each person is important accentuates the reason respect is given to everyone, besides being inherent in Scouting Ideals.

 

When each person is recruited/selected they should be informed about their job duties. Knowing and understanding those assigned duties enhances job performance. Also, knowing that their job is term limited for one year increases the need to accomplish their tasks efficiently and effectively.

 

Evaluation drives quality program, activities and jobs. Periodic reviews keeps everyone informed on all levels of the organization of deficits and successes. It allows for opportunities to increase performance and effective future planning.

 

I am an Eagle, been in Graduate School(s), and have had several jobs in my profession. I have seldom if ever been grilled for two hours. People have respected my time and made appointments and then kept them, even for interviews. Most of my performance reviews were short but if there were deficits, when I left I knew what I needed to do to correct them. This is the kind of respect and effective action that I have come to expect in business and the kind of respectful acts that should be modeled in a Troop at all levels.

 

When a problem is noted, the SM informs the CC and the COR but the SM is not directly involved in any other phase. As for requesting a release for any adult, I would use the same procedures we use for Scouts. Use a verbal warning first, written warning second, involving essential others in the remedial actions, and then release. All actions are direct, confidential and in private. Of course, abuse cannot be tolerated and needs to be dealt with quickly. I have yet to use any of these procedures for adults. Although, the term limits ran out on one individual and he was also moving from the area. We had a hand shake and a hug. My endurance was stretched but his replacement became a turning point.

 

Now, if the adult in question has not been properly trained and informed of the expectations of his/her job, then it is a different situation. Others have not done their jobs.

 

FB

 

 

 

 

[mc99218]

This small stuff....and its all small stuff

 

Read BP's "Tempest in a Teapot" before acting on this matter.

Also get friendly with some older savvy scoutmastersin your district or counsel and get yourself some 1940-to 60,s scoumater handbooks (amazon used or ebay cheap)

 

MCCET

PMTNPO

[John-in-KC]

Pretty much everything said here is darn good advice.

 

I just had my longest BOR in my tenure as a Scouter: 45 minutes. We took the young man to Life.

 

Lots of open ended questions, lots of working to instill insights on how a good leader sets the example ... especially when he's following a leader.

 

If a BOR isn't going well, the CC/Advancement coordinator should know in the first 5-10 minutes (heck, the first ***3***). If a young man needs an adjournment for whatever the reason, please, DON'T take him A-Z and say "too bad, so sad." You've just created a retention problem for yourself ... and that is NOT goo.

 

My two cents.

[Juggler]

I can't find a copy of Baden Powell's Tempest, but I disagree that it's small stuff. My son is not the strongest candidate for Life rank that our board has seen, but I have gotten feedback that several other Star scouts in our troop are now extremely concerned about their upcoming boards - they think that if my son couldn't achieve Life rank, they don't have a chance (and these kids are really good scouts). And they see several other current Life scouts (sons of troop committee members) with very questionable leadership skills and scout spirit who did have successful BORs.

[ehcalum]

Hmm my Eagle BOR was an little more than an hour long. It seems that your troop committee may be showing favoritism. Isn't there some kind of rule that sates a parent cannot be part of his or her son's BOR? Everyone on our committee except for our Activities Chair has a kid(s) in the troop. He sits in on almost every BOR and many times I have been called upon to sit on the Review being a "bachelor scouter" myself.

 

You mentioned that your son wasn't quite up to snuff to be Life, so perhaps you could explaine in so many words that the other scouts shouldn't be freaked out. Training the committee is always good but that may not help as there are some committees out there who bend over backwards just to see their kids advance and ignore the rest of the troop ( i was one ofthe ignored boys). Perhaps a review of BOR procedures and a "cheat sheet" of questions will help as well.