bikerferg 10 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 In the Eagle Requirements, requirement 4 speaks of positions of responsibility within the troop. Den Chief is definitely listed in the responsible position listing. Is it permissible for a scout master or committee to not allow a scout to use Den Chief as the responsible positon held in going from Life to Eagle. The SM and committee want their ucoming Eagles to display leadership in what they consider more responsible positions in the hiearchy. Den Chief is viewed as ok for Star or Life. Isn't this modifying the Eagle Requirements....What do you all think..Steve Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 No it is not permissible. I don't have to think. All I have to do is read. If the Scoutmaster and the Committee want to start their own youth organization, they can of course do so. But if they want to belong to the BSA, life isn't that hard just read the requirements and support the youth members as they reach for their goal. Eamonn. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Ditto to what Eamonn posted. The SM & committee aren't the ones earning the badge! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Maybe we can set a record for the most agreements ever in a thread, the two distinguished gentlemen are right on, Den Chief counts Link to post Share on other sites
Spiney Norman 10 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Ditto. While the troop leaders may wish the scout to have more leadership experience you cannot change the requirements. The requirement is what it is until national decides to change it. Link to post Share on other sites
Hunt 11 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 He can't be bugler. That's the only change from the Star-Life list I see. Link to post Share on other sites
nldscout 18 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 If the SM has approved the youth to be a Den Chief, which he must, then he has no option but to count it. The key is the SM must approve the youth working as Den Chief. The only way they can not count it would be to say to the youth "Sorry, but you cannot be a Den Chief". Unless the scout is unsuitable for the position, yes we had one young man in that boat, why would you not want to have Den Chiefs. What better way to sustain the t Link to post Share on other sites
mk9750 11 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 I agree with the assembled quorum. I also strongly disagree with the SM. A well trained Den Chief who fulfills all of the expectations of his office is just as much a leader as is an SPL, and, depending on the circumstances, maybe more so. We actually ask our former SPLs to take on Den Chief and then Troop Giude positions AFTER they serve as SPL, not before. We try to get Scouts to see that Asst. Patrol Leader and ASPL are where they learn leadership, Patrol Leader and SPL are where they intern, and Den Chief and Troop Guide are where they put there skills to practice. Please ask your SM not to short change the importance of Den Chief. Mark Link to post Share on other sites
bikerferg 10 Posted October 9, 2004 Author Share Posted October 9, 2004 I appreciate everyone's comments and am going to encourage the SM, Committee, and other troop adults to review this thread. I will pass the url on or even print out hard copy. This attitude seems to be over a boy who has all his leadership with the Den Chief position. The SM and other advisors need to help him move into another leadership position of responsibility if they don't want just experience with they consider minor. I my self believe it (Den Chief) may very well be one of the more important leadership positions given that it helps expose young cubs to the uniform, Boy Scouts, even being a big brother experience for those who need it. Keep listing if you can, it only supports my position. Any other groups to solicit similiar support...Thanks..Steve Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Hunt, All ranks listed for Star are applicable to Life including bugler. Go by the the information in the Boy Scout handbook, web sites are often wrong about a lot of things. bikerferg, The SM and committee do not have the authority to alter the advancement requirements no matter how noble they feel they are being. Any Scout who has been turned down for advancement after actively serving in a designated office should be informed that they have the right to appeal the decision to the Council and even national advancement committee, which I guarantee will overturn the decision of the SM.(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to post Share on other sites
red feather 10 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 How interesting. The troop that I am with has added, ( or is trying very hard) the requiremement that an Eagle Candidate must be a Den Chief to fulfill want is needed to get Eagle. Fighting the idea on my part. I agree with the concensus, additional requirement cannot be added. yis Link to post Share on other sites
Hunt 11 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Believe me, I have nothing against buglers. I will have to look at the handbook when I'm at home, but (unless my eyes are failing me) the 2004 BSA Eagle Scout Rank Application does not list bugler as one of the PORs. It does list den chief, of course. Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 There must be a spot for "other". I've seen Eagles who had untraditional PORs, such as webmaster. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 EagleinKY There is an option in the requirement to perform a Scoutmaster assigned project. Link to post Share on other sites
eagleSM 10 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 i've never seen a "Webmaster" patch, so i would stick to the program . with that said, we no longer use signal flags or wiffenpoofs , so perhaps one day this may be a viable office- just not today Den Chiefs are important, although i would not equate them equal to the level of an SPL. they are, however, a critical component to the future of a Troop. its unfortunate that your leaders feel this way. it is wrong. Eagle candidates do have the right to appeal such decisions. eSM Link to post Share on other sites
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