New to the Board of Review process

[CubsRgr8]

The BOR for a scout consists of a non-registered parent (not his), a registered troop committee member, and a registered assistant scoutmaster. The scout passes the BOR, the advancment form is signed by the three BOR members and turned over to the troop committee member who handles advancement. The advancment form is then submitted to the council, where the scout's rank is entered into the national BSA database. Now, what happens when the scout is ready for Eagle? Does the council go back over his advancement forms to verify BOR membership and kick back his Eagle BOR request because of previous BOR irregularities?(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

[Scoutmaster Ron]

During one of my son's BOR he was asked "How many merit badges has your Dad signed off on for you" appropriate? the answer was only 1 (non-eagle) of course. Allthough I know I can sign off on eagle required merit badges I dont by preference

[Bob White]

CubsRgr8,

No, the advancement report should have triggered a contact with the units adult leadership at the time it was processed, telling them that the BOR must be made of registered committee members (except for the Eagle BOR), and that the advancement will be returned for proper signatures.

 

A scouts Eagle rank will not be refused due to the inability of adults to follow the rules.

 

Scoutmaster Ron,

The question was inappropriate. As a parent you can approve any merit badge for which you are a registered and approved counselor. Whether the MB is Eagle required or not has no bearing on your knowledge of the topic, or your ability to act as your son's counselor.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Cubs - Where do you find authority to have a non-registered leader on the BOR? Everything I've read says that the BOR is to be comprised of members of the Troop Committee (not ASMs or SM either).

 

Ron - I'm going to spin off a new thread about your comment.

[Proud Eagle]

I must say Bob's example of the council checking the signatures seems unlikely to me. I have signed on a number of advancement forms, and no one ever asked a question of it or told the troop to fix itself. I have been asked to serve on several BORs because no one else was available. (This included no one else being available within a reasonable time period.) There was one occasion when a BOR was scheduled (same night as a meeting) for a Scout's advancemnt. The BOR members didn't show. Only the CC did. The choice was deny the BOR the Scout had been promised, or have a Board consisting of the CC, SM, and an ASM. On another occasion the Advancement Chair quit with little or no notice and the SM was the only person able to take on the job for a couple of months until someone else could be recruited, and oriented on the job. That caused a bit of a problem. Generally anytime the question has been, do we wait until we can do it properly (wich could be weeks or months from now, and will cause a Scout to have to wait, when normally they get a BOR within a couple of weeks of asking for it) or do we do it now in a "creative" way, we get creative. Besides, if the BOR is for the purpose of reviewing the execution of the program rather than the Scout's advancement as most seem to say, then it won't hurt the Scout any to have one ASM on the board to round things out. (Particularly in this troop since really adults fall into 3 catagories- parents involved with the program (mostly MCs), non-parents involved with the program (mostly ASMs), and other leaders that are mostly inactive. It doesn't matter to the Scout if it is an ASM or a MC on the BOR, it is still someone they see at meetings, on campouts, and at other events helping carry out the program.)

 

That being said the correct way is the way that is preffered in the troop, and efforts are made to get that to happen. Unfortunately many things seem to go wrong and so that leaves other options as the only way to make it happen.

[Bob White]

"That being said the correct way is the way that is preffered in the troop, and efforts are made to get that to happen."

 

Actually, the correct way is the method set and controlled by the BSA advancement policies and published in the resources of the BSA. No unit has the authority to alter those policies or procedures.

 

There are specific reasons for having the scout meet with the Troop Committee rather than the ASM or SM for this portion of their advancement.

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Bob,

Would it be safe to say then the BOR process is a way or method to determine if the program is being followed? Not by having the scout repeat the knots and the 1st aid or naming his 10 plants and animals but to ask how he went about it?

[EagleInKY]

Ron, I think you're correct. Someone once said it was Quality Control for your advancement program. There's some truth to that.

 

Does anyone use set standards for each rank? For example, if a Tenderfoot fumbles through the Scout Law, that's understandable. But if a Life Scout does, shame on him. The Scout Slogan isn't emphasized very much, so some Scouts may forget it. Just curious... the topic has come up at our Troop Committee meeting.

[Scoutmaster Ron]

I sometimes wonder where our committee gets their questions from. I would like to sit in during one

[Bob White]

Ron, Yes that would be a good way to look at it.

 

EaglelnKY; The only set of standards allowed are those set by the BSA in the advancement requirements. You cannot raise or lower the bar from that point.

 

A Tenderfood scout is required to recite from memory the Oath and Law. At the time he is tested he can either do it or he cannot.

 

A Life scout is not required to recite the Oath and Law from memory, so how well he can do it is irrelevent to his advancement, and should he not be tested on it. He is however required to live by the Oath and aw in his everyday life. If he can show evidence of that, then he has completed the requirement. If he cannot show evidence then he does not yet complete the requirement.

 

In testing the scout, he must do what the handbook requires, no more, no less. In reviewing the scout you CANNOT retest. You can only establish that the scout did as the requirment asked. See the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual.

 

 

 

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Hey Bob.  I guess I'm glad I'm a SM, because I struggle with this whole "not a retest, but a review" balancing act.  I understand what you said about a Tenderfoot vs. a Life Scout.  But my point is not that they should retest them, but if a boy has made it to Life Scout, he should know, understand and live by the Scout Law to an even greater extent than a Tenderfoot.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm really trying to learn how this applies.  If the BOR asks a scout (pick a rank) to recite the Scout Oath or Law, and the scout doesn't know it, what should they do?  Sure, it's not a retest... but if they are reviewing whether he's living by these points (as they should do), and he can't even quote them, what does that say?  What should the BOR do?

On a related thought, I have had BORs tell me that a boy couldn't remember the slogan, motto or something along those lines.  I take that as my issue as Scoutmaster.  It tells me that I'm probably not emphasizing those points of the program enough. 

[Bob White]

EaglelnKY

The Board should talk to the scout, counsel the scout, guide the scout, but they cannot withold the advancement from the scout, unless knowing the Oath and Law is a listed requirement for that specific rank.

 

Does the scout not knowing the oath and Law reflect on the Leader? Sure it does. But it does not signify that you do not emphasize it enough or recite it enough. It shows that nobody knew the needs and characteristics of the scout well enough to know that he was having a problem.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

This is slightly off topic because it is not about the Board of Review, but is about the "Scout Spirit" requirement as well as the Scoutmaster's Conference. I recently found out that my son's Scoutmaster will not pass a boy on Scout Spirit for any rank unless the boy shows up for his Scoutmaster's Conference in full uniform and can recite the Oath, Law, Scout Slogan and Scout Motto from memory. Additionally, in this troop no Assistant Scoutmaster or any other leader (boy or adult) will sign off on Scout Spirit, it is considered the exclusive province of the SM at the SM Conference. At the conference, after the boy recites these things, the SM discusses with him how he lives the Oath, Law etc in his everyday life, and the other things that are discussed at the conference. But if you can't recite the Scout Oath, you have to come back.

 

Is this adding to the requirements?

 

A boy should do, and be able to do, all these things anyway. But is the SM entitled to withhold the Scout Spirit requirement if he doesn't?

 

Incidentally, here is how this has come up recently...

 

first, a boy who was 10 days short of his 18th birthday presented himself for his SM conference for Eagle without a neckerchief or Scout pants, which the SM was probably going to overlook. But then the boy blanked on the Scout Oath. Now, this boy has been a Scout since crossing over from Webelos, has probably recited the Scout Oath from memory hundreds of times, but probably with the stress of having just gotten his project done under the wire, and with the SM sitting there saying, "Scout Oath," at that moment he just couldn't do it. (He did do it before the deadline.)

 

second, and this is AFTER the SM reminded everybody about what is expected at the conferences, a kid showed up for his Star SM conference with no neckerchief. Once again, here is a boy who is in full uniform every week. (He scrounged one up from the troop room, but you have to wonder what would make him NOT do so BEFORE the conference...

 

third, and I suppose this is just by way of bragging, my just-barely 12-year-old son apparently DOES get it, because he had his Tenderfoot SM Conference and BOR the same night and was handed the badge at closing, so he must have done something right, and needs about 3 more things for Second Class...

 

But as always, I digress...

[Bob White]

"Is this adding to the requirements?

 

Yes.

[ScouterPaul]

Bob,

Not to beat a dead horse but...Second Class Requiremnt #9 Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. How can someone demonstrate something if they don't know what it is? If the Scout is visibly nervous and fails to repeat the Oath correctly I would question him to determine level of knowledge. However, if he is going for his LIfe BOR and can't recite the Oath there would be a good chance that I wouldn't pass him. Is this adding a requirement - not in my opinion. He can't demonstrate to my satisfaction the Scout Spirit requirement.