bill_troop_157 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 One of the most asked questions I get from the boys when it comes to merit badges is why is boxing and karate excluded as a sport from the Sport merit badge. My standard answer was its to dangers. Now Im getting but rifle and shotgun are allow and you can kill someone in that sport. Fencing is allowed and that like throwing knifes at each other. Its getting to be a standard joke all the boys keep asking me. They know when they got you they just wont let go. I tried emailing www.meritbadge.com but they got all spammed out and will no longer accept email. Does anyone know why or who I and contact for the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I think the proper answer is that - while you can kill a person with a rifle or shotgun - the point of the MB is to learn how to handle the equipment correctly so that you can not only improve your ability, but do so in a safe manner. As for boxing & karate, the problem with the sports is that - even when following the rules - a person can be killed (can you say "Duk Koo Kim"?). I'm not sure why fencing isn't lumped into the same barrel. Maybe because it's seen as a more "highbrow" sport??? Just my thoughts... maybe someone else has some historical info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I think the point is, you can use targets with a rifle and skeet for shotgun (and targets as well for Archery), Katate and Boxing require the striking of another person and Boy Scouts dont do that. We had a District Camporee based on a Survival Theme, had 3-D targets of Deer, bear, turkey, and a goose for the archery range. The Big HOncho (not sure who/title) said couldnt be done as Boy Scouts dont shoot at even targets that imitate a living creature. Always wondered if that was true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutmaster Ron Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 My opinion...any contact sports are not allowed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hops_scout Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Well, then you've basically eliminated every sport:). Especially football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 from meritbadge.com requirement 4 Take part in ONE of the following sports on a competitive basis in two organized meets or tournaments: archery, badminton, bait or fly casting, bowling, canoeing, cycling, diving, fencing, fishing, golf, gymnastics, handball, horsemanship, horseshoes, judo, orienteering, paddleball, rifle or shotgun shooting, sailing, skating (ice or roller), skiing, swimming, table tennis, tennis, track and field, waterskiing, or wrestling (or any other recognized sport approved in advance by your counselor, except boxing and karate).* Judo is listed as is Wrestling, so much for the body contact thing, I guess there is a logic, somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 It has to do with acceptable risk levels. Impact contact is not acceptable. This is based on past injuries incurred in scouting and their causes. Do you really want to spend your time and money responding to accidents and liability claims? Neither does the BSA! You can ignore the rule if you choose, but understand that you will be personally liable, and open to both criminal and civil prosecution, for any resulting injuries. Is that a financial risk you are willing to put on your family? Then why should the BSA be expected to shoulder that same risk? Hops I am surprised by your answer, Tackle football is a prohibited activity in scouts but not flag or touch football. To say that this rule eliminates every sport is not the usual thoughtful response I have come to expect from you. Just look at the ones mentioned in the merit badge and you will see how inaccurate your response was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_troop_157 Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 I would have to say that at least 70% of the boys in my troop have taken Karate lessons at one time or another. Most if not all no longer take lessons. As for possible injuries I just cannot see it happening today. In a good school the kids wear more padding then football players. Also in any sport there is a possible of injuries. Soccer is listed as the most dangers sport played in the country. More concussions occur because the kids try to head butt the ball. Of all the boy scouts that have gotten the Sports merit badge Im sure there were some major injuries related to the sport they played in. You cannot play a sport and believe you will never get injured. Its the nature of sports. First you cannot ignore the rules of a merit badge if I choose. Second Insurance is not the issue Scouts are insured. What liable is involve? I dont know any merit badge counselor who will have the boy perform a judo hold on then as proof that there taking the sport. Read the requirements you just have to play two team sports and show improvement in those sports. As well as knowing sport related first aid. From what the feed back Im getting it appears to be an old safety issue that was never changed. Does anyone know how to suggest a change to a merit badge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 "It has to do with acceptable risk levels. Impact contact is not acceptable." It is about acceptable risk but not impact contact. Tackle football can be used to meet the requirement as can basketball, field hockey, ice hockey & lacrosse. All can and do contain impact. I agree with OGE's reasons as to why boxing & karate are not allowed. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hops_scout Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Thanks Ed, you made my point exactly. EVERY true sport involves contact (yes, i'm being biased here;)) Baseball, soccer ( i guess;)), basketball, football, hockey, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be_Prepared Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I believe it has more to do with the inherent nature of these two sports, rather than acceptable risk. The G2SS states that boxing, karate, and related martial arts (except judo, aikido, and Tai Chi )are not authorized activities. With some martial arts ( aikido, judo, etc.) there are no striking, hitting, chopping, kicking or punching movements - as would be found in karate or boxing. Aikido, for example, uses throws and joint locks, focusing on using an opponents energy to gain control. Karate, in addition to throws, uses strikes. Regarding impact contact - many of the sports listed for requirement #3 - the team requirement - could involve contact (basketball, fencing, field hockey, football, ice hockey, lacrosse, rugby, soccer, team handball, and wrestling). As a side note, it is interesting that football is listed for a possible team sport, yet, according to the G2SS "...Varsity football teams and interscholastic or club football competition and activities are unauthorized activities" In regards to the comment on whether you will be held personally liable, and open to both criminal and civil prosecution, I'll just let that one pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 There is a difference between what is acceptable for fullfilling a MB requirement an what is an approved BSA activity. A scout can can use football for advancement, a scout activity can not include playing football. Be Prepared, leading or allowing scouts to participate in restricted activities does in fact leave you vulnerable for prosecution and personal liability losses for any injuries that occur. BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 " EVERY true sport involves contact (yes, i'm being biased here)" True sports are track and field and wrestling. Football really isn't a sport. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 "a scout activity can not include playing football." Huh! They had football games at summer camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 The exact wording in the G2SS is Varsity football teams and interscholastic or club football competition and activities are unauthorized activities. Nothing about a friendly game of pick-up footbal at summer camp or two Troops getting together to play flag football. Nowhere in the G2SS does it state "football is prohibited". This is the stuff urban legends are made of! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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