The name game

[Fat Old Guy]

How closely are the names examined on blue cards and advancement cards when a Scout goes for Eagle?

 

For example if some say "Bob", some say "Robert" and others say, "Bobby", will the Eagle Board reject them?

 

What if a Scout doesn't go by his legal first name? Let's say his name is Robert John Smith and his entire life he's been called "John" and no one ever thought to tell him to put "Robert" on his blue cards.

[OldGreyEagle]

FOG, is this a real case? Is someone really splitting hairs that thin?

[Fat Old Guy]

Just trying to avoid possible problems down the road.

 

It would be a shame for "John" to get down the road to Eagle and have someone say, "Your name is Robert, all these cards say John."

 

From your comments, it would seem to be unusual that anyone would care.

 

For my part, I was surprised to learn that Eagle Boards only care about blue cards and that the "pocket certificate" is meaningless to them. Why then, does a Scoutmaster certify that someone earned the merit badge on the pocket cert? Why even give those out?

[OldGreyEagle]

In the Council where I live, Eagle Board of Review members dont certify merit badges. The Eagle candidate fills out the Eagle application, at the bottom of the first side is the "grid" where merit badges are listed and the dates earned specified. The aplication is sent to Council headquarters where the dats of these meritbadges are verified against the Council records. If the dates and names on the Advancement Reports match, all is well. At Eagle Boards of Review (I am Advancement Chair for my District, I have done a lot of them) we talk to the scout about which merit badge was fun, hardest, worst etc. but we dont verify the cards, that has already been done, thats the way its done in my neck of woods. I have never seen a problem with Robert, Bob, bobby, etc. doesnt mean there havent been, but I havent seen it.

[evmori]

Fat Old Guy,

We have always had the Scouts fill out the blue cards using their name the way it is on our annual recharter roster. That way, there is no question.

 

OGE,

I have had this happen! There was a Scout in my Troop (now an Eagle) who went by the name of Buddy. His real 1st name was Joseph. When I went to council to validate some records, they couldn't find any merit badges for Joseph, only Buddy. Since then, we have gone to the method I explained to Fat Old Guy.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Ed, glad it worked for the scout.

 

It does bring up an important issue, and perhaps a lesson the scouts should carry on into adult life.

 

As I comemnted earlier I used to be a manager of an X-Ray (Radiology) Department. Of course, keeping track of films and patient names was always a headache. I get a call one afternoon, a father was having a fit because we couldnt find the films on his son and he was supposed to pick them up to take to a specialists office. Of course the father was frantic about his son having a severe health problem and was venting on the receptionist. He couldnt understand why we couldnt find "Charles Parker" (his son's) file folder. I get up to the reception area and this guy proceeds to dress me up and down and then for good measure, just like shampoo, he repeats. When he slowed down to take a breath, I asked him when the child was in last. He gave the approximate date, I used date search on our computer log and came up with a patient done during that date range the right age but the name was "Robert Parker". Robert? the father says Thats his real first name but his mother and I always call him by his middle name, Charles, the only one who calls him Robert is his grandmother and oh my lord she was the one who took him to get the tests. In 5 minutes the folder was located under the name Robert, processed and a humbled father left, with his childs films. The receptionist who had forgotten about using "date search" became quite proficient in the future.

 

Another time a woman was irrate, we couldnt find her mammography films. She was quite stressed as well. I get the call, angry patient in the reception area, so I go up to see what I can do. This was pre-computer log, The lady starts to rip into me, telling me how she had always come to this hospital to have her mammographies done, she had come here for 10 years and I had better find those films since they were hers and a necessary resource if she had problems in the future. I asked when was she here last, she said I came in August, I know it was August because it was exactly 6 weeks prior to my wedding and I was going over my to do list in the waiting room and Oh my lord, i forgot my name changed, look under Smith, not Jones for the last name. In 5 minutes the folder was located.

 

The moral of the story? its a good idea to stick to your formal name when filling out any form, just to be consistent.

 

(HIPPA note, all names are fictitious, and similarity to charactors, or persons alive or dead is coincidental and not intended to malign, slander, or libel them, the situations are real)

[SM406]

Fat Old Guy

 

Our advancement chairman and I get a copy of the scouts advancement record from the Coucil before we submit the scouts Eagle application to council. We compare the scouts blue cards, etc to what the coucil says. If there are any differences, we try to come up with back up for our case either from the "pink sheets" or the blue cards (in most cases we are right). More often than not the problem is in the Scout not using the name he has been registered with. I try to catch it on the blue cards before they go in. So in essence we watch it close, but I have never seen a scout denied a merit badge for using the wrong first name.

 

SM406

[mk9750]

Our Council utilizes the same method as OGE's (verify the badges and dates from the bottom of the Eagle Application). The blue cards have no official use in our Council. Scouts turn them into me (Troop Advancment Chair), I record them in Troopmaster, and send an Advancement Report to Council. The blue cards are never checked. We've joked that from the Council's perspective, anyone could pretend they are a MB Counselor and sign the blue cards. Of course, we check to make sure everything is on the up and up, but who's checking us?

 

The only problem we've run into is when Council went to the new computer system. Any time the name on our report didn't match theirs exactly, it got kicked. Makes sense if your talking Charles to Robert, but we had Bobby being kicked because they listed him as Robert. Once I got all my records matching theirs, and enter new Scouts into Troopmaster using a copy of the application, everything has been fine.

 

Mark

[MaineScouter]

A quick question... when you guys refer to "the blue card", are you referring to the application for merit badge card that the boy fills out and the MB counselor signs? In our Council, the cards are yellow, not blue! The cards are turned in "whole" as well. I'm one of the few MB counselors I know that keeps "my" third for my records. I've always had my sons tear off the "applicant's" third and keep that as well. Only the first third, the actual application, is given to the advancement chair for processing. The rest of the Troop's MB cards go to Council whole. The Troop still fills out paperwork by hand, not computer. When my older boy became an Eagle, they just made sure that his application mirrored the Council's record for dates the MBs were earned before it was sent to Texas. He said the only question he got at his BOR about MBs was which one did he learn the most from.

 

MS

[Marty_Doyle]

OGE

 

Please do not mention HIPAA.

 

But your footnote was humorous.

[packsaddle]

I agree with OGE and SM406 makes a good point as well. We use the blue cards but before the time of the Eagle application, I get the Council advancement printout and check it against our old advancement forms. Once the advancement and MBs are on the advancement form, we just archive the blue cards.

The council records are abysmal and they know it (missing boys, wrong birth years, lost advancement records, etc.). Consequently they allow a fair amount of latitude for corrections by the adult leaders. As long as we supply credible evidence, they have been very reasonable in getting the corrections in. Moral: Be Prepared. Don't count on anyone else to keep your records straight. Goes for the boys too.

[Twocubdad]

Holy smokes! I can't imagine having to rely on the records at the service center. Any relationship between an individual's actual accomplishments and the records kept by our council are purely coincidental.

 

Rather, I would hope that the signature of a Scout and his Scoutmaster verfying all the advancement would suffice. With something as important as an Eagle application, I see nothing wrong with a phone call to verify a badge. But when the Scoutmaster says, "Yes, ma'am, he earned it. I have my copy of the card right here," that should settle it.

 

I'm in a similar fire fight now trying to get knots for two den leaders in my pack. Council has no record of them completing training and no cards were ever issued at the time the classes were taken. In one case, I sat beside the den leader during one of the courses. The big problem here is that the person responsible for approving the knots wears underwear waaaaay too tight. I'll dance the dance for a few more weeks, but ultimately we'll buy the knots and present them ourselves.

[Fat Old Guy]

" I'll dance the dance for a few more weeks, but ultimately we'll buy the knots and present them ourselves."

 

Interesting attitude.

 

 

[SM406]

The person in charge of the Eagle applications at our Council Service center at first blush appears to be pretty anal about the precision of the advancement and merit badge dates and names on the application. But then consider the importance of the rank and award, every thing should be correct. I got to thinking about if our Council uses the Blue cards (we only turn in the third section Application for. The MB counselor should keep their third and we keep the applicants record in a file for the Scout. This part of the Blue card fits nicely in those plastic sleeves made for baseball cards.) I am not sure, however I have experienced Council using the date of when the advancement sheet was turned in to Council as the date for when the merit badges were earned as opposed to correctly use the date on the MB card or as listed on the Advancement sheet.

 

SM 406

 

[packsaddle]

SM406, I'll try to clarify what we do. Our council has told me that it IS important to make sure the dates on the Eagle application agree with those in council records. I go through the effort to make sure they are in perfect agreement BEFORE the application is sent. Some of the time everything agrees and there is no problem. But lately, I have found errors in every recent set of records.

If I spot an error in council records, I do everything I can to correct it. BUT...council records are more likely to agree with the advancment forms. And if the blue card is dated differently from the advancement sheet...and if the recorded dates on the advancement sheet and at the council conform, nevertheless, to the written requirements, I use the date that agrees in the records (and leave the blue cards in the plastic sleeves as an emergency backup). I hope this is clear enough.

 

Occasionally, the council records have had the dates COMPLETELY wrong (First Class to Life in two months, for example). I take great pains in those cases to bring everyone back on track.