Camping badge - can we count family camping in 20 nights?

[LauraT7 13]

I know this has been asked before - but this time I'm putting in a poll

 

Our troop has always done 1 night campouts. Right or wrong - that is what they have done - and because of that, it usually takes our boys about 3 (or more) yrs to accumulate enough nights of camping to qualify for their camping badge.

 

partly because of the above - and partly because my son and I (and some other boys) just like longer campouts - we have successfully lobbied for more 2 nighters in our troop and gotten them.

 

With the new standard of 2-night campouts - the new boys should be able to attend most events, miss a few, and still get the 20 nights about the time he's hitting 2nd class or first class.

 

But under the old plan - we have boys of Star and even Life rank who have not gotten that many nights of camping - some who have even gone to 4-6 weeks of summer camp (we've done 2 wks of camp the last 2 yrs), yet their TROOP CAMPING is only 14, 17, 18 nights.

 

But the problem I'm having is that I am a badge counselor for Camping - for some Odd reason - the ONLY one registered in our troop. (you'd think ALL our ASM's would qualify to be badge counselors for Camping MB, wouldn't you????)

 

Anyway, I have been asked whether family camping nights count, and I am inclined to count them, as we do have families that family camp, and I know the boys would be expected to carry responsibilities on these 'family' trips. Many of our families are avid bikers, canoeists and backpackers. The thing is, I don't want to establish a precident whereby a future little scout's mom wants him given credit for 20 nights of camping in the family camper before he finishes his tenderfoot rank.

 

I would be tempted to require at least a portion of the camping be done WITH the troop - But as a counselor, I am not supposed to add or subtract from the requirements. Still, the badge itself does not say the camping has to be done within the framework of scouting - the only reference to scouting is that you can only use 1 week of 'long term' camp; it doesn't even say it has to be done WHILE A SCOUT - it just says:

 

(Req 9A)

"Show experience in camping by doing the following:

Camp out a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights.(You may use a week of long-term camp

toward this requirement.) Sleep each night under the sky or under a tent you have pitched. "

 

it goes on to specify some options you must cover on some of those 20 nights of camping - which some of our families do for fun on their campouts.

 

so what is YOUR opinion?

 

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Looking at the requirements, I wonder how many Scouts in my troop have really earned this badge. Patrol camping is almost non-existant in my troop and I've never seen a lightweight stove on a camp-out for anyone to cook for their patrol.

 

The requirements don't say that the camping must be done with a troop only that it be under the stars on in a tent that the Scout has pitched. The requirement that the Scout pitch the tent also gives me pause. For one of the ranks, it says "helped pitch". Does that go for camping as well? Our troop tents are pretty good sized and usually require three boys to erect.

 

 

[evmori 11]

Like Fat Old Guy said, look at the requirements. While it doesn't say the camping needs to be with a Troop or Patrol, it is very hard to monitor if it isn't. Did the 10 year old Scout help dad set up the family tent? I would like ot believe he did but there is no real way to know.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SharonNC 10]

A Scout is trustworthy and honest. (Think I remember that from somewhere.) Our troop camps every month, 2 nights minimum, but I can see where some would have trouble getting the camping badge if the troop doesn't like camping.

 

I have found that the boys are generally honest, if asked about duties on family campouts, I think they would tell you what they did. Zealous parents wanting to further the child's merit badge sash more than the child's experience maybe wouldn't be as honest but...the boys will generally tell you the truth.

 

I think that the troops that aren't patrol oriented do the boys more disservice. It's hard to feel connected if you don't have a say in what happens. I wonder if those troops that have only one night campouts really listen to the youth members?

 

Just my humble opinion,

Sharon

[packsaddle 753]

As long as they meet the current requirement, I see nothing wrong with counting family camping. Actually I encourage family camping...it's good to get everyone out there. You are the counselor, you make the call. You are obviously conscientious so I would have no objection to your decision.

[NWScouter 9]

Why the rush? With 6 nights at camp and at least one overnight camping every other month (based this on missing an outing or a just a day one some months), a Scout should be able to make it in just about two years. Unless he is on the way to try to set a record for being the youngest Eagle that would be fine. You don't need it untill you are going for Eagle. There are 12 (or 15 depending on how you want to count) required merit badges plenty of them for Star and Life need of 7.

[evmori 11]

Don't get me wrong, I think family camping is great! And yes a Scout is trustworthy. But sometimes his parents aren't and they could be the ones pushing him.

 

And really, what is the hurry. A merit badge can take more than a year. If your Troop attends summer camp, there are 6 nights there and if you do on two night trip a month there is another 22! And if it's only one night trips (don't understand why) then there is another 11! All the Scouts in your unit have the opportunity to earn the Camping merit badge! And as far as rank requirements, this should provide ample oportunities.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[hotdesk 10]

Person to ask would be your Council or District Advancment Board.

 

The Council Advancment Board Coordinator, in Laura's coucnil, is

??Bob?? Dalton. You can see him at Roundtables.

[KoreaScouter 13]

While the requirements may not specifically require Troop/patrol camping, it's clear to me that the intent here is for the camping nights to be part of the Troop program, supplemented by patrol campouts as appropriate. Here's some things to consider:

 

1). Go a couple pages before the requirements in the MB pamphlet. In the "Note to the Counselor", it says that camping "...helps the BSA deliver the promise of outdoor adventure to Boy Scouts." It goes on to reference the GTSS and various portions of it that relate directly to camping safety and the "qualified supervision" that's required to keep it safe, and other pubs that trained leaders are familiar with. So, what were the authors envisioning, family camping or Troop/patrol camping with 2-deep registered leaders to meet the requirement?

 

2). The 20-night requirement can include 6 nights at a long-term camp; that's almost a third of the total. Camp just seven nights a year other than summer camp (District camporees can provide as many as six if yours is as active as mine have been), and you have your 20 nights. It took my son a few months short of two years to get his 20 nights, that met all the qualifications. We did outings where we stayed in cabins -- don't count. Neither did long-term camps after the first one. It all seemed reasonable to me, and while he could have sliced that time in half if we counted family camps, I wouldn't have done it.

 

3). Monthly themes include feature activities, which can be campouts. The feature activity is where all the skill instruction that month comes together, not to mention the setting where leadership lessons are really learned regardless of the theme.

 

I know, I know, the wordsmiths/lawyers will remind me that despite this, the requirements don't mandate Troop/patrol camping, and there are probably a fair number of Scouts whose parents are licensed outfitters and more than qualified to teach them how to camp. But, I think that's largely beside the point. The skills here go way beyond pitching a tent properly, or hanging a bear bag. It's as much about leadership, menu planning, duty rosters, dealing with homesickness, and other intangibles that simply aren't present when mom and dad are ten feet away.

 

Without intending to be a wise guy, I'd say if it takes a Troop's Scouts too long (more than 3 years) to get their 20 nights, camp more often.

 

Surely there are other Camping MB counselors in your council; have you checked the roster and called any of them to see what they think?

 

KS

[packsaddle 753]

KS, Around here it's common to put in 40-60 nights before the MB is done. Eagles finish with more than 100 (I'm envious). By choice, mind you, and considering your weather you could probably do similarly well.

[Eamonn 61]

I'm with KS

Eamonn

[KoreaScouter 13]

Packsaddle;

 

I think I get your point, but since we moved here in June, I've learned the weather is a mixed blessing. When it's great for camping, it's also great for surfing, snorkeling, sports, family picnics, and other activities that pull Scouts away from Troop activities. Much different in Korea, where Troop outings were often the only options our Scouts had.

 

I'm a little slow on the uptake; are your Camping MB counselors requiring more than 20 nights for the MB requirement, or does your Troop camp 40-60 nights in a typical 2-year period, or did you mean something else?

 

KS

[packsaddle 753]

Wow, most of those sound like great troop activities (as well as temptations). Anyway, not including summer camp (often two weeks/summer) we have approximately 25 nights per year. The motivated boys really love it and they sometimes go with other troops as well. So the nights available increase when you include those. But the real reason is that the camping badge is one that they usually don't worry about until a couple of years into the program after which they've already accumulated quite a number of nights. What I didn't say is that I know of no boys who finished Eagle prior to age 17. They tend to drag everything out to the edge of the deadline.

Edited part: Oops, forgot to answer the question. The counselors stick to the written requirements. We have some boys who start counting the nights as soon as they join but just a few.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[bt01 10]

Should family camping count for the merit badge badge, NO. Should it cout for the OA No

[NeilLup 13]

I guess if your Troop insists on 1 day camps, I might be OK with a couple of family camp days for a Life Scout. I'd have real trouble with a Tenderfoot Scout qualifying for Camping merit badge based on a 6 day summer camp and 14 days of family camping.

 

I noted the sleep under stars or under canvas requirement. In our part of the country, and I suspect in yours, the weather makes that impractical if not unpleasant for several of the Scouting months of the year. (Of course, one could hairsplit and say that we always sleep under the stars. Just sometimes, there is a roof between us and the stars.) Would you count a lean-to as under the stars or not? If your Troop doesn't camp in the summer, it could limit the number of days technically qualifying to 5 or 6 per year. That is a bit draconian.