Working with Deaf Kids/Parents

[Stosh 3452]

I stand corrected. I was working with 5 men who were deaf/mutes, yet I know of deaf who speak very well and read lips very well. However, catching the attention of a deaf person who speaks and lip-reads excellently cannot hear you calling out to them when they are not looking at you. For all practical purposes, in that regards, it makes no difference whether they are deaf or deaf/mutes so in some respects they can all be lumped together.

 

I did more thinking and there's another thing to remember, when a deaf person is reading your signing they are looking you in the eyes. It is as if they are not paying attention, but they also read body language and facial expressions at the same time they are watching your hands out of the corner of their eyes.

 

And it's going to take someone who is a very caring and sensitive person to teach you all the sign obscenities you will need to know if you are going to try and keep it away from your boys. I was working in a factory with men, so it wasn't a problem to learn all the bad words, but I don't think you'll be able to sit down with a scout's mom and have her teach you all the bad words her boy may know.

 

Stosh

[Kudu 186]

"Mute" can also mean "I don't WANT to talk." When deaf kids try to speak, the reactions of kids who don't know them can be mortifying.

 

"I don't think you'll be able to sit down with a scout's mom and have her teach you all the bad words her boy may know."

 

Now there is a priceless image

 

No matter how seriously you study all those "naughty words" you can't keep boys from being boys:

 

1) You can't "overhear" sign, if you follow them around they will merely turn a certain way to block your view.

 

2) In deaf schools where adults sign as well or better than the students, the kids merely develop their own group shorthand (sign slang) for when teachers are looking straight at them. It is like Indian smoke signals, where everyone can see but the meaning is secret.

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[evmori 11]

when a deaf person is reading your signing they are looking you in the eyes.

 

No they aren't! They are watching your hands! You don't sign with your eyes! Yes they do pay attention to your body language but they rely on primarily watching your hands.

 

And I bet those deaf/mutes did make some vocal sounds!

 

However, catching the attention of a deaf person who speaks and lip-reads excellently cannot hear you calling out to them when they are not looking at you.

 

If a deaf person speaks, they can hear something and you may be able to get their attention by calling their name. I can with my kids.

 

 

[Stosh 3452]

"when a deaf person is reading your signing they are looking you in the eyes."

 

"No they aren't! They are watching your hands! You don't sign with your eyes! Yes they do pay attention to your body language but they rely on primarily watching your hands."

 

As I said, they may be watching out of the corners of their eyes, but they do not stare at your hands while you are signing. Sorry, but maybe the people you know do, but I've never had many do so unless I'm struggling with a sign and they purposefully watch carefully at my hands. To these men, eye contact was very important in a conversation, both to show they were paying attention and as a courtesy as well as reading facial expressions. If one is spelling words, they may watch a little closer, but with most of the actual signs around the chest and head area, there is no need to not make eye contact with the person signing. I for one had to watch the signs to understand them.

 

 

"And I bet those deaf/mutes did make some vocal sounds!"

 

Three never made any vocal noises whatsoever, one would produce a nasally screech to catch your attention and the last one made a loud breathy "huh!" noise to catch your attention. Other than to catch your attention, they made no vocalizations.

 

"However, catching the attention of a deaf person who speaks and lip-reads excellently cannot hear you calling out to them when they are not looking at you."

 

"If a deaf person speaks, they can hear something and you may be able to get their attention by calling their name. I can with my kids."

 

As I mentioned before, my experience has been mostly with deaf/mutes. Some of their friends were speakers and lip-readers but I didn't know them as well. If a person can "hear" you by calling their name, by definition they are hard of hearing, not deaf. A good speaker/lip-reader can fool the general public by totally covering up their handicap. A hard of hearing person may also know sign language and occasionally not wear the cumbersome hearing aids. With advances in biotechnology a lot more can now be done for these people that wasn't able to be done 40 years ago when I was spending a lot of time with my deaf/mute friends.

 

Stosh

[evmori 11]

Please quit lumping deaf & mute together, Stosh. You even said they have emitted vocal sounds to get your attention. Therefore, not mute!

 

When deaf kids try to speak, the reactions of kids who don't know them can be mortifying.

 

Trying to speak & speaking are completely different, Kudu. I know lots of deaf kids who do speak. They don't try, they know how to speak.

 

If a person can "hear" you by calling their name, by definition they are hard of hearing, not deaf.

 

Wrong! Both of my kids are severely to profoundly deaf and they both speak. They both wear hearing aids and can hear when you talk to them.

 

cumbersome hearing aids

 

This ain't the 70's! Hearing aids are no longer cumbersome!

 

You really need to get your facts straight, Stosh, before you make totally incorrect statements.

[Stosh 3452]

"Please quit lumping deaf & mute together, Stosh. You even said they have emitted vocal sounds to get your attention. Therefore, not mute!"

 

Sorry, but that's the term the friends I have refer to themselves as. And as I stated 3 of them make NO NOISE WHATSOEVER. That makes them mute. One does a non-vocal breath sound similar to one clearing one's throat and the other does make a vocal screech sound. So then maybe only 80% of them are deaf/mutes. Making vocal noises may be in today's world non-mute, but if they cannot use of those sounds to communicate anything other than

 

"When deaf kids try to speak, the reactions of kids who don't know them can be mortifying."

 

Startling, maybe but nobody's going to die.

 

"Trying to speak & speaking are completely different, Kudu. I know lots of deaf kids who do speak. They don't try, they know how to speak.

 

If a person can "hear" you by calling their name, by definition they are hard of hearing, not deaf."

 

"Wrong! Both of my kids are severely to profoundly deaf and they both speak. They both wear hearing aids and can hear when you talk to them."

 

If they wear hearing aids and can hear when someone talks, then they are not deaf. It would seem that we are playing word definition games here.

 

"cumbersome hearing aids

 

This ain't the 70's! Hearing aids are no longer cumbersome! "

 

I said I was making reference to the 70's. Sorry you missed that part.

 

"You really need to get your facts straight, Stosh, before you make totally incorrect statements."

 

They are correct, you may be hearing, but you aren't listening. There's a difference. I suspect that because you have two deaf children you may be more sensitive to the issue than others. However, having known deaf, deaf/mutes, lip-readers/speakers all my life, I don't get all that wrapped up in playing symantic games.

 

mute [ myoot ]

adjective

Definition:

1. not speaking: unwilling or unable to speak

2. making no sound: saying nothing, or making no sound

3. not expressed in words: felt or expressed without speech

4. law not answering charge: refusing to answer a charge brought in a court of law

5. phonetics

Same as plosive

6. phonetics not pronounced: not pronounced, like the final "e" in "cheese"

 

If one were to look at just the word mute itself, speaking and making vocal noises are definitely two different issues of which you find it necessary to lump together.

 

If one must have a definition from which to view my posts, it may not be a modern definition or a politically correct one but:

 

If a person lip-reads and speaks they are deaf, if the person cannot lip-read and relies 99.9% of the time using ASL, they are deaf/mutes, i.e. they cannot or choose not to speak (see definition #1 above). If your two sons have amplification devices and speak, then I would agree they are deaf only. It is a great thing that modern medicine has been able to assist these people the way they have over the past 40 years, but in my day and age, and with people my age that don't avail themselves of such new technology, they remain quite contentedly as they describe themselves deaf/mutes.

 

Stosh

[evmori 11]

If they wear hearing aids and can hear when someone talks, then they are not deaf. It would seem that we are playing word definition games here.

 

No word play. They are deaf. There are different stages of deaf. Both of my kids were born deaf. They both wear hearing aids. They both speak. They are both deaf. They are not hard of hearing. There is a big difference between hard of hearing & deaf.

[aslforme 10]

ok, i would love to voice my opinion. i have worked in the Deaf community for over 10 years. with this experienc, it is so hard to suggest naything. myself, i would just see how the scouter reacts in this enironment. I am a Sign Language interpreter and all to often hearing people want to just jump in. This boy might already have "coping" methods. He might read lips, he might write back and forth. Numerous students who i have worked with have learned strategies to cope in the hearing orld. If the scouter asks for some assistance, then would be a good time to offer it.

I know there is an elective or activity to learn sign lagnauge. That would be a wonderful time to have the deaf/hard of hearing scouter become the teacher. They are the ultimate teachr becsue it is "THEIR" language.

As far as labeling, this should NOT be done. We do NOT label any other scout so why should "they" be labeled. To often people want to just label when that is the opposite of what the people involved need.

As far as camping, hiking and othe actibities, the buddy system is supposed to be enforced. A scvout should never be alone, so this should not be a worry.

[Stosh 3452]

Welcome aslforme!

 

I think this would be excellent, especially for the patrol members, PL, and SPL to be taught ASL by the new boy. Even if it's just the alphabet at first. Then as the boys spell everything out, the new boy can teach ASL to speed up the process one word at a time. I am thinking the others would find it fun and use ASL eventually as their "secret patrol code" so others wouldn't be privy to what was going on. (SM and ASM should definitely sit in on these teaching sessions!) Scouts love using secret codes and this would be a great opportunity for the new scout to shine. I'm sure he's had lots of experience teaching others "his" language over the years long before he gets to scouts.

 

Great idea!

 

Stosh

[sheldonsmom 10]

Thank you all for your advice and assistance. Our new Webelo has joined, earned his bobcat and is almost finished with his craftsman pin. He loves this scout stuff! I am discoving I have learned more sign than I thought. The boys are doing well with including him in all conversations. We look forward to camping with him later this summer/fall. Thanks again.