(Seemingly) Disengaged Youth

[Beavah 205]

 

Yah, GW had an interestin' rant in da parent thread that really merited a different venue . He offers the followin' commentary about his 50-person troop:

 

When push comes to shove, I think that most boys in Scouting are only there because their parents want them there.... the Philmont crew started taking sign-ups in September or October but wasn't full until April or May....The real problem was that most of the boys didn't want to do the mandatory training hikes....Adventure? They had a caving expedition set up but it was cancelled because only three boys wanted to go....Rock climbing? Nah. COPE. Nope. Kayaking? Might get wet. Ski trip is cool because you get to hang out in the lodge and play video games.

 

So I figured I'd move it over here since it's probably a good topic for other troops, too.

 

Me, I think kids are kids. They aren't any different now than they were 50 years ago. So when I hear a tale like this, I sit down with da unit leaders and try to help 'em see what their role is in creatin' this culture, and how they can change and do better rather than blamin' it on the kids.

 

One of the things that's true about kids is that they're a pretty conservative bunch, just like most humans. They tend to stay in their "comfort zones" where they know they can succeed. Doin' a new activity is scary. Not because it might be cold or wet, really, but because they might not succeed. They might not be good at it. Their friends might make fun of them.

 

Goin' to Philmont or goin' kayaking is a "known" thing for us, eh? We're already good at it. But for them, it's the great big scary Unknown, way outside their comfort zone.

 

Yeh get kids to engage with scary unknown adventure the same way yeh get a kid down his first rappel.

 

1) You start small. Day bike trips. Easy, good-weather backpack trips. A 3 foot rappel. Build some experience and some success.

 

2) You build a personal relationship of trust and enthusiasm. When a lad steps backwards for the first time off a rappel tower, that's an awesome act of trust and faith in the adult who's talkin' him down. And that adult is throwin' everything he's got into bein' encouraging, and supportive, and enthusiastic... probably even a few of the lad's friends or older scouts are joinin' in, too.

 

Same is true for kids goin' on a scary new trek. It relies on a deep relationship of trust with the adult leader(s), and a lot of the adult and older lads throwin' their all into encouraging, supporting, and being enthusiastic.

 

3) You end medium, but yeh talk big. A lad makin' it down a short climbing tower rappel is really only a minor or mid-level achievement in the adult world, eh? But when it happens, we talk it up like it was da Second Coming! We comment on how awesome it was, we listen to the lad tell the tale over and over, we watch as younger lads get swept up in the enthusiasm.

 

Same with startin' into more adventurous outings. Yeh end on a "medium" difficulty thing, but yeh talk it up like they just climbed K2. Then next time they're a bit more willing to step into the unknown, and the next group of lads comin' up is almost eager, because it ain't "unknown."

 

Anybody else got suggestions for GW?

 

Beavah

 

[hot_foot_eagle 13]

Success breeds success.

 

If you can only get 5 boys to go climbing - take 'em! When they get back, stoked from the excitement and their accomplishments, they will be the best advertisement for the next climbing trip. Make sure they have some photographic evidence of their adventure to drive the point home.

 

 

[Gold Winger 9]

Going to Philmont isn't or wasn't a known thing for me. Neither was the COPE course or any of the other fun stuff that I've done as a Scouter. Neither was riding a motorcyle, learning to fly or setting sail on a big grey ship when I was 18. Even at my age, I'll give just about anything a shot if I can be convinced that I won't die.

 

I don't know if we sought out the unknown as when I was a kid. I do know that we did adventurous things. At least they were for us. Build a rope swing. Climb trees. Bike to the next town. Explore the nearby desert. We may not have been climing Everest but we were out doing things.

 

Kids may not have changed but their behavior has and much of that is the fault of the parents. "It's too hot to go outside, stay inside with the A/C." "Don't go into the woods, you may get lost." "Sit here and play this mindless video game."

 

I used to watch my son and his friends "play." They'd shoot hoops for about five minutes and then be bored. They'd ride their bikes up and down the block a few times and then get bored. Then someone would bring out the GameBoy and everyone would sit around for HOURS and watch him play.

 

There was a kid interviewed on TV who said that playing Tony Hawk's skateboard video game was "funner" than actually riding a skate board. Sorry but for me Microsoft's Flight Simulator isn't funner than than actually piloting a plane, even a Cessa 150 and Formula 1 Race Day isn't anywhere near as much fun as driving a car at speed.

 

Sure, you treat the climb up the wall at REI like they just did El Capitan but they don't want to do that, they'd rather play "Rock Climber."

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Way Way Way back, in the Spring of 1997 we might very well be having the same discussion. Youth were apathetic couch potatoes and nothing short of a miracle would bring them out of their lethargic state.

 

Then, in June 1997, the first Harry Potter book was published and it took the world by storm. I am not sure what the reaction would have been had in May 1997 if a post in May 1997 would have predicted a book series would sell millions. I am sure the reponses would have been on the order of "it can't be done" "kids wont do that" and the like. But what Harry Potter does teach us is that kids are kids just as they always have been. They do seek adventure and excitement although it may not be the adventure and excitement we wish to foist upon them.

 

It may be easier to blame the youth, but then, how do we change them? Perhaps the answer is changing ourselves. If the uniform is indeed such a huge issue, then it may be time to ditch it in favor of the Venturing approach. Each Troop may have its own uniform and then have a national one for "dress" events. I dont think it would make much of a difference, but then, I could be wrong.

 

I dont think today's youth are anymore disengaged as any other generation, I think its our generations job to engage them

[Eagledad 2777]

Happy Snow Days All

 

>>Kids may not have changed but their behavior has and much of that is the fault of the parents.

[evmori 11]

I dunno. When I was a kid, I was out playing every chance I had! Never in the house unless I was sick or sleeping. Today, it seems that kids are just the opposite! Why go outside when they can sit in a nice warm or cool house (depending on the season) & play video or computer games! Helps with hand-eye coordination! But what good is improved hand-eye coordination if it's only used for video or computer games? And let's not forget about the social interaction skills that aren't honed sitting in front of a TV.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed New Year to all

[Eamonn 61]

After the last National Jamboree the Jambo Troop had a reunion.

Covered dish, Bring your photos and tell funny or interesting stories. No awards or that sort of thing.

We (I) invited the Scouts to get up and say what the thought about the Jambo. Some choose to not say anything!!

However nearly all the Scouts who did decide to get up and talk said that they enjoyed doing new activities and the fact that they were free to go off and do what they wanted to do, when they wanted to do it. (One Lad scored a lot of brownie points by saying that Eamonn wasn't bossy and let us do our own thing!!)

High Adventure is not big on the offering list for Scouts in the District I'm in. I think mainly because the adults are not interested and don't try to sell it.

The Council does offer high adventure trips to Philmont and Sea Base. I have no idea why? But it seems that two of the four Districts rarely if ever get anyone to attend. The reason might be finances? The two that do go are from the wealthier end of the Council. (These trips cost over $1,200)

There is one Troop that seems to base it's entire program on trips to Philmont! Boy! Oh boy are they ever a boring bunch!!

Everything is Philmont this or Philmont that!!

If I were to list the most popular activities that the Ship does, using attendance as the yardstick/ meter. All night bowling would come out on top, followed by activities close to home.

The Scouts who attend the big and more adventurous activities do seem (At least in my mind!!) To return on a "Sea Scouting High", so far it also seems that these are the Scouts who remain in the Ship the longest and want to participate more. Of course these just might be the kind of kids that would always be the active participators?

The events that have the worst attendance or get canceled most are the events I try to push on them.

They really enjoy activities with other Ships, but dislike any sort of competition. Again I think they see that the competitions are something that are forced upon them. I have to admit that I think that without the competition being there and providing the framework for a lot of the events, they would want to hang out and fairly quickly become bored! But I might be wrong! Maybe there is a happy medium?

I know this is going to come off sounding a little daffy but I'm going to say it anyway!!

Of course when I was a kid I didn't spend my time playing video games or on the computer. If you were able to go back in time and visit the bedroom of my youth, you would find a bed, some books and a transistor radio!! I at times wish that I'd had a laptop, X-Box, DVD player, LCD TV, Ipod, the Internet, cell phone that can do so many neat things. But none of this stuff was around.

My choices were stay home!!

Join the local Boy's Club.

Or be active in the Scouts.

If I stayed home? My Mother, who believed that the Devil finds work for idle hands would have put me to work! And I was always a lazy toad.

The main activity offered by the Boy's Club was boxing! I never liked being hit.

So I was active in the Scouts.

By no means a little angel!! I learned a lot as a lad in the Scouts that would have made BP turn in his grave!! (But I'm not going there.)

Eamonn.

[Kudu 186]

Don't discount peer-pressure. One single Scout can completely reverse Troop culture but it takes some independent thinking for an adult to spot a true leader, and likewise he often does not win a Troop election.

 

Our current SPL is the best I have seen a decade, but he was only ASPL after he lost the popularity contest to another Scout (who fortunately resigned, so they switched positions).

 

He is also the kind of leader that Baden-Powell might call a "hooligan:" He wears blue jeans to meetings and he gets into trouble at school.

 

But he has tripled monthly campout attendance, inspired advancement and some nice high-adventure trips, and increased PLC meetings (at first not allowing adults to attend).

 

Oh, he is a strong advocate of NYLT. Imagine that!

 

Kudu

 

[GernBlansten 10]

Kids might not have changed, but what entertains them has. Big time!

 

When I was a kid, back in the 70s, I literally wore out the tires on my bike. I wore out skateboards. I wore out sneakers. We created our own adventures. Come home from school, grab the BB gun, jump on the bike and head for the gullies where we would meet the rest of the kids. Weekends were the bomb. Spend all day outside. Never, NEVER spent a day watching the tube. Mostly because it was boring, unless the 6 Million Dollar man was on. Or Wonder Woman!

I blame these new video games. They are incredible. The games give them the adventure, the stimulation and the entertainment we had to create as kids. There's no need to do it for themselves. Its easier and better to just withdrawal into the game.

I can still get my kids (with some initial complaints) to go sledding, skiing, biking, hiking, climbing, swimming, fishing, canoeing, but the minute we get back, bamm! they are back at the video game.

I'm part of the problem too. My son got straight A's this semester and is working on his Eagle and all he wanted for Christmas was a PS3. How can you punish him (in his mind) for doing everything we ask of him? I just wish he asked for a new set of crampons and an ice axe.

[local1400 10]

"I'll give just about anything a shot if I can be convinced that I won't die". There are worse things than being called home GW.

[Gold Winger 9]

I take it that by saying "called home," you mean dead. You're right, dead or maimed or injured with severe neurological problems.

 

I'd love to go skydiving but at my age, with my knees, there's a good chance that I might have a worse limp for the rest of my life.

[Lisabob 13]

Dunno about all those slacker youth you guys are describing. This year my son's troop is going dog sledding, snow tubing at a place with a great hill but a lousy ski lodge, canoeing, backpacking, and rock climbing. They will have an aviation-themed campout in late spring, together with some of the good folks from the local Young Eagles chapter and hopefully this will include going up in a small plane (still working on details). Last winter they went luging on the US olympic training track - my son's favorite camp out to date. Last summer our older boys did a week-long sea kayaking trek and a few others went to sailing school. This summer we're going to a different camp but there's a whitewater program that some of our older boys will probably do, and we have a bunch of 13-14 year olds who are eyeing the camp's COPE program with great interest. They've never done anything like it before and it seems like a big adventure to them.

 

Now our troop does not typically send a contingent to Philmont or Florida's Sea Base and I wish we would do more to encourage our older boys to participate in our council's annual trips to one of these locations. And we don't do nearly as much back-country packing as I might like to see either - but then, the boys choose a varied calendar full of outdoor adventure with several exciting new programs each year, and we have more boys age out of the troop (at whatever rank) than just Eagle-and-out, which says something to me about the appropriateness of the level of adventure. If anything, I've found that there are some stick-in-the-mud adults who seem to want the boys to do the same old thing every year, regardless of the boys' interests.

 

And I've found too, that the boys tend not to know what is possible, beyond their own limited experiences. So to get really big new ideas planted takes some effort. They need to be taught how to locate information on new options, and how to take a seemingly BIG adventure and break it into manageable pieces. But they aren't couch potatoes and they are willing to try new things. So I'm pretty happy about that.

[Eagledad 2777]

Beautiful Sunday All

 

>>and we have more boys age out of the troop (at whatever rank) than just Eagle-and-out, which says something to me about the appropriateness of the level of adventure.

[GernBlansten 10]

My comments are not directed at youth activities in the troop, but what youth do independently with their own time, outside the structured activities us adults create for them.

Our troop does cool stuff and the boys seem to enjoy it. The coolest stuff is adult organized. Its not what I would like to see, but if we left it up to the youth, they simply wouldn't put it together. Trust me, we tried. We've mentored, we've guided, cajoled, coached, taught. But it never gets done, the older scouts just don't get it or don't care. How many missed deadlines, lost weekends, bad trips until you take the reines back. Maybe we need that special SPL who really is a leader and driven. He isn't in our unit, at least we haven't identified him yet.

 

[Beavah 205]

Our troop does cool stuff and the boys seem to enjoy it. The coolest stuff is adult organized. Its not what I would like to see, but if we left it up to the youth, they simply wouldn't put it together. Trust me, we tried. We've mentored, we've guided, cajoled, coached, taught. But it never gets done, the older scouts just don't get it or don't care. How many missed deadlines, lost weekends, bad trips until you take the reines back.

 

Yah, Gern, when yeh say you've "mentored, guided, cajoled, coached, taught", can I ask what sort of things you've done and how much time you've spent on 'em?

 

So, do you do TLT? And how much time is spent on that? Do you do ongoing patrol leader training? And what does that look like? Are you runnin' mixed-age or single-age patrols? Is the SPL expected to organize everything, or do the PL's and APL's have a major role so that they're learnin' along the way to becoming SPL? All kinds of things in troop culture are interrelated in odd ways, as EagleDad describes.

 

What yeh describe is "delegating down" to kids who aren't quite ready. A bit like tellin' a beginner swimmer to swim across the lake, then throwin' up your hands in frustration when yeh have to go rescue him. Often it happens even though you gave long and detailed instructions to him about swimmin' across the lake and even worked out a written plan for doin' it.

 

That delegatin' down problem can be because of ages & stages, or from a bit too much teaching at the kids, rather than working with the kids, or not quite realizing how much effort it really takes to build skills and confidence before lettin' a lad "solo". Mostly, though, it's just because the lad hasn't had enough practice or the right kind of practice. A bit like an expert swimmer tellin' a boy to swim across the lake, when what's really needed is a lot of time splashin' around and swimmin' in the shallow water. That can be borin' for an expert swimmer, for sure, but it's the way all of us learned to swim.

 

I'm with EagleDad & Lisabob as usual. It is possible. I know some scouts who on their own time organize ski trips and rock climbin' trips and service efforts and such, all because of the culture they picked up in their troops. GW has a point, though, that in this day of "organized" activities, lads start out in scoutin' bein' more immature in that way than may have been the case in the past.

 

So we've got our work cut out for us, eh? Don't give up, don't blame the kids. Best to look at what we're doin' and change it if it ain't working the way we want it to.

 

Beavah