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Fat Old Guy

11 year olds leading 11 year olds, what's your experience?

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Bob White, you're invited to not participate because we know that you believe that 11 year olds make great leaders.

 

Everyone else, if you've tried patrols of all 11 year olds being led by another 11 year old, what's your experience been?

 

I haven't seen it work. My experience is geographically limited so what's it like in Korea, Guam, or Oklahoma?

 

Bob White (motto: All things BSA are good except part of the Guide to Safe Scouting) seems to think that 11 year olds can be taught to be effective leaders of other 11 year old, even if it takes a year or two.

 

 

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HI FOG,

 

First it is not fair to misrepresent me and then try to deny me the opportunity to correct your misrepresentation.

 

I believe that the scouting program is an educational method that among other skills can teach a scout age child the skills of leadership and give him the opportunity to practice and develop those skills in a leadership role in a patrol or troop. It is not reasonable to say all 11-year olds are great leaders, any more than one can say that all adults will be great leaders. It is sufficient at this stage of their development to be learning ang practicing leadership, and scouting is one of the few places that will allow them that opportunity, IF the adult leaders understand what they are supposed to be doing.

 

Has everyone tried to make 11-year-olds leaders. Of course not. You are a self proclaimed example of a supposed scout leader who doesn't like or follow the program. You are not alone though I believe you are a minority.

 

You have not seen it work. No, You have not made the effort to make it work. You do not trust the ability of children to learn these concepts.

 

All things good except parts of the G2SS what are you talking about now? That's ridiculous and you know it. What part of the G2SS have I ever said I disagreed with?

 

I know scouts of any age can be taught leadership skills not just 11-year-olds. How? By following the scouting program.

 

SO FOG, tell us what impenetrable mental, physical or social barrier exists in 11-year-olds that makes it impossible for them to succeed in leadership.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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Gee Bob, glad to see that you can follow the rules of a thread.

 

"All things good except parts of the G2SS what are you talking about now? That's ridiculous and you know it. What part of the G2SS have I ever said I disagreed with?"

 

Maybe I was tripping on LSD that had been applied to pay phone buttons but I recall a thread in which a Bob White (motto: friend to all but those who disagree with me) stated that medical forms should be sealed in an envelope for emergency use and not reviewed by the leaders as suggested by the G2SS.

 

Yeah, it must have been that pay phone I used the other day.

 

 

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Glad we agree you have a medication problem:)

 

At no time did anything I write violate the G2SS and you know that.

 

I believe we are still waiting for some constructive solutions from you. You have already expressed your distrust of the program, now share your solution. Why wait for others to agree or disagree. You continually point out the problems with the program without ever offering a serious validated solution. Share with us your vision of what leadership is and how in can be accomplished in scout aged boys.

 

 

 

 

 

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"At no time did anything I write violate the G2SS and you know that"

 

Oh, dance around that now. You said that leaders should not review medical forms and everyone here read it.

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FOG if you want behave like this do it in a private message. There is nothing positive gained on this board by your constant personal lies and attacks on me or by your criticisms of a scouting program you neither like or understand.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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Fat Old Guy,

 

When my son entered into the troop the Webelos all formed their own patrol and as 11yr olds they did fine, were they as effective as the older boy's, no however all our gifted according to their maturity level and talents. If your opposed to having all 11yr olds togther as a patrol please reconsider. Let them use the troop guide as a resouce and assistance.

My opionion let them hang out with their friends in the same patrol I think they will enjoy the scouting experience alot more.

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I have seen it work both ways. There are some 11 year olds who are good leaders. I would say this is the exception not the norm. In my experience, most 11 year olds don't want to be leaders. They want to be followers. I think the idea of having an older Scout who is more familiar with the BSA program be the Patrol Leader with the idea he is training his replacement from this Patrol. And this only works if the Troop utilizes the New Scout Patrol.

 

Ed Mori

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"At no time did anything I write violate the G2SS and you know that."

 

Ummm, yes you did in your post in the Medical Forms thread on 10/6/2003.

 

"There are those who will argue that the leader needs to know the content of the health form, but that is simply not true."

 

The G2SS states the leader should review the medical forms. If a leader reviews a medical form he/she will know the contents.

 

Ed Mori

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evmori has a good point by having an experienced scout as patrol leader first and then train the others is good as along as that's the way it does happen. But most older boys don't want to be in the same patrol as say 1st yr scouts.

 

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In addition to the points you raise Ron, boys do not want to be told who the leader is and in Boy Scouts they should not be told who their leader is. You cannot expect a scout age boy to cooperate with a peer leader that he had no say in selecting. That is a basic part of the methodology of the patrol method.

 

Bob White

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Bob,

No one is telling them who there leader is. They will elect their leader. Where you got from my post they will be told who their leader is is beyond me!

 

Ed Mori

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I think the idea of having an older Scout who is more familiar with the BSA program be the Patrol Leader with the idea he is training his replacement from this Patrol. And this only works if the Troop utilizes the New Scout Patrol.

 

How did that older more experienced scout become the Patrol Leader Ed?

 

Perhaps you are refering to an older more experienced scout being selected by the SPL to be the Troop Guide in a New Scout Patrol? But that is not the same as being the Patrol Leader. The TG works with each scout as they rotate through the Patrol Leader position. That is, if the troop utilizes the New Scout Patrol. Something which I am glad to hear you support.

 

Bob White

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