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Yes, a By-laws question


Nike

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First, we only have by-laws because we operate on a military installation. Most of it was pulled right off of BSA websites.

 

So, for those of you with by-laws, are parents who are not registered in an official leadership capacity (listed as Scoutparents on the charter) considered part of your body to vote on the budget and revision of by-laws?

 

We have no definition of a quorum for anything other than Pack Committee Meetings.

 

 

 

 

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That's like asking if I visit a town council meeting, can I vote on a motion?

 

Now if these are new parents who haven't pushed paperwork quite yet, you may want to give them a vote. Otherwise, any non-members present may have "voice but not vote."

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Technically speaking - It depends on your specific bylaws, which might include a definition of who "members" are, and/or who gets to vote (members in good standing, for example?). If your bylaws are silent on this matter, then move on to the next sentence.

 

Practically speaking - in the only unit where I was involved and where bylaws existed, the on-the-ground practice was to allow all parents of boys in the unit to vote, if the parents showed up to committee meetings. This was an outgrowth of the culture of that unit, that those who showed up were de facto deputized as committee participants. I guess it ultimately comes down to what you hope to accomplish (or avoid).

 

 

 

 

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That's like allowing any unit scouter to show up at a District Committee meeting and vote on matters. No. Only members of the District Committee, which includes all CORs (ex officio) and duly elected members of the committee, are allowed to vote. That's why we have committee members...to decide matters for the whole pack. It's the boys who are members of the unit...not their parents (unless they are registered Scouters).

 

P.S.-what does being on a military installation have to do with it?(This message has been edited by papadaddy)

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Within our Pack, we welcome all parents, and encourage their input on any of the discussions, but We virtually never Vote on anything. (I think I can recall one time, 2 years ago, in a discussion about the Blue and Gold Location...)

 

It's almost always decision by consensus, and that includes non comittee members such as Den Leaders and Parents who are not registered leaders.

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It seems like one of the key requirements of the by-laws would be to define who can change the by-laws.

 

We never vote, either. I can literally never remember a vote in either the pack committee or the troop committee.

 

If it is not defined, though, I'd expect that the default answer would be that only registered committee members can vote. They could decide to open the vote to others, but if you are going to count votes, you only count them from registered voters.

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The Committee takes input from the PLC/Scoutmaster and develops the budget - hopefully by consensus (honestly, if your committee members can't make these kinds of decisions without taking a formal vote and without so-called "bylaws", then y'all may as well just close up shop now and go find something that doesn't take any effort, like staring blankly at American Idol).

 

If your "bylaws" don't have a statement of who the "members" are and who can vote to change the "bylaws", then you don't have bylaws, you just have a piece of paper without any meaning. Know what that does for you? It makes it real easy to just tear up those "bylaws" and go back to doing things the way Scouting units did for decades before the "Unit Lawyers" got cute and decided they needed to create "bylaws".

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We have to have bylaws because we are an overseas pack and it is an Army reg. We are only allowed to operate on post if we are an official private organization and thus able to use certain facilities and assets for free or minimal cost. We are also only allowed to fundraise and have a military banking account if we are an officially sanctioned private org.

 

Believe me, we have to go through recertification soon with Garrison, and we will have tightened up by-laws. I was curious as to how people deal with the Scout Parent designation.

 

 

 

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As others have pointed out, there are several standard parts to any set of bylaws (one word, no hyphen).

 

One defines who the members are, including their rights. (some groups can have different levels of membership, which can include non-voting members).

 

Another will define how the bylaws can be amended.

 

I should also point out that there should be a section on meetings, which will define what kind of meetings you have, who calls them AND what is quorum (which is the minimum number of members you need to hold an official meeting).

 

 

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All of the above points are well taken. Every unit committee in which I participated operated by consensus and nobody was doing a roll call at any time during the meeting.

 

Having said all that, I still think that it is useful to have by laws that define who is and who is not really a member of the committee. The by laws will also prescribe the circumstances under which a meeting may be called and who may call it, and quorum requirements.

 

These things matter most when really tough decisions come up, particularly things like imposing an involuntary change of adult leadership. When such controversies arise, and they will arise at some time, it is far better to have a process in place and not make it up on the fly. You do not want to create a situation where an angry group of parents who never contribute time to the unit suddenly are able to show up and swamp the committee with their issue.

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Well, the BSA has already defined that - if your registration on the charter says CC or MC, then you're on the committee. Otherwise, you're not. That's why bylaws for MOST BSA units are redundant and not necessary - most of the stuff covered by bylaws is already in the BSA structure, policies and materials.

 

If you read the sample committee meeting agenda Cub Scout Leader Book or Troop Commitee Guidebook, you'll see that votes are not referenced. Typical unit operations don't require voting. Committee members have jobs. They are empowered to do those jobs and report back to the Committee Chair. End of story. So bylaws which define voting rights are generally not needed, since no voting takes place.

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and that includes non comittee members such as Den Leaders and Parents who are not registered leaders

 

if your registration on the charter says CC or MC, then you're on the committee.

 

For a Cub Scout pack, I believe the BSA has vacillated on the role of den leaders as being a part of the pack committee or not. They used to be separate from the committee, then they were an integral part of the committee and now once again they are considered separate (much like in Boy Scouts). Can anyone back me up on this?

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If you go here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack.aspx

the org chart shows the Pack Committee above the Cubmaster and all the DLs below him, implying that the CM works for the committee.

 

Here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack/pcomm.aspx

it lists out all the duties of the CC and different MCs: Treasurer, Secretary, Advancement, Outings, Membership, and FOS.

 

The CM and DLs aren't mentioned anywhere as being a part of the Pack Committee.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Cubmasters and Den Leaders are not officially committee members and technically cannot vote on committee matters. That said, a pack committee would be foolish to ignore the concerns of their DL's and CM.

 

As Cubmaster, I attend our pack leader & parent meetings which include committee members, CC, DL's, CM, and all parents that would like to attend. Decisions are made by consensus and everyone that attends the meeting has a "voice" in Pack matters. I don't remember a time when we voted on anything.

 

Our policy and procedure book (by-laws) is the Cub Scout Leader Book.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Nike, for your specific purposes, I would:

1) If not Registered, not a Committee Member.

2) If not a Committee Member, voice but no vote.

3) If ScoutParents want a vote all they need to do is fill out one more sheet of paper and pay the fee and preferably take on a task that might be overburdening someone else.

4) The Committee Meeting quorum rule you already have in place answers the unasked other question.

 

You know the organization you are crafting this for and while in Civilian life I now want all the wiggle room I can finagle, the folks you are submitting this to are rule followers looking for rules to be followed, that will keep THEM out of trouble. The easier it is for them to decipher who the members of the organization are and the better the documentation on that the happier they (and maybe you) will be.

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