Do you have Expectations for ASMs

[moosetracker 132]

Just wondering.. I am still getting word of how my past troop is sinking into the tar pit of doom and destruction.. One thing I heard is that since the restarted this Fall they have already canceled both the planned trips due to no adult leadership..

 

It had been that way before my husband & son left that although both of them were on the committee, and they have the SM and about 5 ASM's.. It was counted on at least one of them to go or the event fell through due to no adult leadership. Now from what I hear even the SM is one of the people not able to make the trip..

 

So mine is a bad troop example.. But, it did not get this way overnight.. It got this way after years of not expecting or requiring the ASM's to do anything..

 

I don't know if they still do, but it use to be that the troop paid the registration cost of the SM & ASM due to them going above and beyond what a registered commitee member was expected to put in.. Don't know if they still do this, but boy these guy sure don't deserve the troop to pay for their registration any more..

 

[desertrat77 1144]

Moosetracker, sorry to hear about your old troop.

 

As a former ASM, I think it's a key role. How to keep things on track:

 

- Recruit adults who want an active leadership role instead of being office holders and meeting attenders.

 

- Give the ASMs meaningful duties and then give them the authority and leeway to fulfill

 

- SM should build a leadership team with the ASMs...sends the signal to the scouts that the SM is the lead adult, but together all of the adults are on one page, and if SM is absent, ASMs X Y and Z are have filling his/her shoes.

 

Not all ASMs are up for this...some will be more involved than others. To a certain extent, ASMs have the same responsibilities as a scout to be active and show scout spirit. If they don't? Drop them from the roster during recharter. Not worth the money.

 

PS An unscientific observation (as a current UC)--in my neck of the woods, we are having a heck of a time getting adults to volunteer to do anything. Even the registered leaders. Good folks but in the last year there have been more unanswered emails, cancelled events, poor attendance, missed opportunities, than I can remember previously. Sure, good things are still happening. However, leaders and parents just seemed burned out every time I see them. I'm in the military, and work with scout units on a military installation, so there are circumstances. Off duty military events (picnics, races, etc.) are poorly attended or cancelled outright too. Sign of the times?(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[moosetracker 132]

I agree with you that the lead guy to set expectations is the SM. Our troop was great under the leadership of the two SM's before the current one. The ASMs were just one per patrol, and they were expected to preform, and knew what their role and duties were and took pride in them.

 

The current SM doesn't know how to delegate, and never set any expectations of anyone. Then because no ASMs were doing anything, they just allowed anyone who wanted to register as ASM thinking the more in numbers then someone will step up for an event. Well they got more signing up to be ASM, but they sit and do nothing along with the originals.. So now they have somewhere between 2 to 3 times ASMs to patrols, all still doing nothing.

 

Not my problem how they fix things (if it is still possible to fix things), but it would be hard to not re-register them for not doing anything, when you never told them they were expected to be doing something..

 

We do have one ASM who cares and trys.. But he is also the current CM, so his priority is the pack first, then the troop and sometimes the events collided on dates being held. He spends more time being frustrated by the ineptitude of the other adults around him.. (I guess you could say he has now taken up the position my husband was holding last year.. One person attempting to give the boys a good program, while all the other adults fight and quarrel and trip over their own feet, or everyone elses feet.. And mess things up.)

 

I guess they did reschedule the event the canceled last week for this weekend. Only 2 scouts went. Don't know if it was because no one plans for the events anymore as they expect them to be canceled, or if the fact it was the Saturday before the big NorEastern rolled in, and everyone was rushing to do their fall clean up that they should have had at least one more month to get to..)

[desertrat77 1144]

Thanks for the additional notes...one thing that jumped out: that old phrase about "everyone thought that someone would step up and then no one did" comes to mind if the ASMs kinda mill around and don't have specific responsibilities.

 

Must admit the ASM-assigned-to-a-patrol idea is still new to me. As a scout and troop level leader, I was taught that the SPL/ASPLs were the go-to guys for the PLs to guide, correct, instructor, motivate, problem solve, plan, etc. PL interaction with adults was very rare. Made for some interesting situations (safe environment to fail) but the scouts really learned the ropes that way. May not be pertinent to the situation at hand, but just a thought.

[moosetracker 132]

Yeah, I don't think our ASM's (when they did their jobs) got in the way the the SPL to PL relationship thing.. It was more a way to make sure we didn't over-do on the ASM positions.. You don't need a SM and 15 ASMs to help guide 2 patrols, and since the commitee voted to pay for the SM & ASMs registration, some wanted to make sure there was a cap on how many we allowed into the position.. The SM had to pick his crew wisely, not just take anyone who wanted in.. I can't quite remember if they really had "a" patrol... But, if they did it was not obvious..

 

ASM's were expected to go on the majority of events (not just the few their sons choose to go on).. Helped with Summer Camp, Helped with judging compitions, Made sure the boys stayed on task, Helped with the signup sheets, car pool & Adult Leader food planning and purchasing before an event, and would stand in for the troop meetings/events that the SM could not be present.

[OwntheNight 10]

I'm 1 of 18 ASM's in our troop of 120 boys. The expectation our former SM and current SM has put on us is sign up at the beginning of the year for whichever ASM position you choose and that's your position for the year. The next year, you can sign up for the same position or a new one. He really only wants us in the same position for a max of 2 years. The idea being, learning a new position within the troop and preventing burnout. Another expectation, is that an ASM does need to help plan/coordinate at least one of the campouts that the boys have chosen. (signups, travel plans, adult meals, etc.)

 

While 18 ASM's sounds like a lot, in reality it's about 8-10 that are truly active. The other 6-8 help out when they can on specific campouts. Right now, I fall in that category. I'm one of the TTFC ASM's, the last campout I went on with the troop was Summer Camp. I do show up for TTFC sessions, and help out when I can. As a CM, my SM has told me to focus my efforts on keeping the pack running strong.I do feel bad, for not being able to help out more, especially on campouts. In a way I feel like I'm letting the other ASM's down, and placing more burden on them to be available for the troop.

 

We are running into a problem with not being able to recruit more ASM's right now. I think we've picked up 1 additional ASM from last years group of new boys. (25 new boys)We've always had the requirement of ASM's need to be Wood Badge trained and be asked to serve the boys as an ASM after serving on the committee first. We've changed the requirement of WB trained, to committing to taking WB within a year of your appointment. We also have to pay for our registration, campouts, etc. we feel like you have to have some financial skins in the game to stay active.

[desertrat77 1144]

Ownthenight,

 

18 ASMs for a troop that size--sounds about right! Thanks for sharing your troop's ASM plan, I just learned a few things.

[resqman 108]

We have about 5-6 active ASMS for a troop of ~50 scouts. We have another 5-6 who have uniforms and attend about 2-3 campouts a year. They occasionally drive or helpout a specific event but are not regularly attending or participating.

 

SM runs the ASMs as a patrol. Each boy patrol has an ASM assigned as an advisor. One ASM is designated as the backup or stand-in SM when the SM is not able to attend. One ASM is the quartermaster and helps to keep a consistent record of gear between boy quartermaster transitions. He also helps train the boy quartermasters in their function. We rotate the cooking/grubmaster duties amongst all attending ASM and eat as a patrol on campouts.

 

We used to require all ASMs serve on the committee for a 1 yr before becoming an ASM to learn how the troop operates. The current SM waives that requirement for those adults who would be better in the field with direct contact. We request all ASMs complete the 4 classes (YP, FastStart, SM Specific, IOLS) within the first year. At least 3 of the current ASMs are on the district training staff for IOLS. If a new ASM can't get to class for a while, we have the skills to transfer the knowledge until s/he can get to an offical class. The SM encourages females to become ASMs. He feels that scouts tend to be more civil and clean if there is a female on campouts. We have had several female ASMs attend Northern Tier and Philmont.

 

We are currently actively recruiting for more ASMs. The 5 most active all have sons around 15 yrs old and rank of Life. It is probable that the sons will earn Eagle within the year and find other hobbies. Certainly the Dads can stay on without boys in the troop but after 5 years as an ASM many are ready for a break.

 

We had a bad Boy recruiting year 2 seasons ago and got no new boys. As a result we also have a hole in the adult recruiting. We just discussed last week ways to increase ASM recruiting and participation. With Webelo crossover only 4 month away, we are hoping on some new families to draw from.

[eagle90 125]

We have 62 boys and 6 ASM's. Some have a definite responsibility

 

One is Advancement Chairman

One is in charge of Eagle progress

One is in charge of training

The others handle special projects as they come up.

 

Works well for us.

 

Dale

[qwazse 4367]

Being an ASM, I expect to:

Pay my own dues.

Get trained on my own dime.

Maintain certifications in First Aid, CPR, BSA Guard (council lost the paperwork on that one, I can't find the card, so I may be stuck).

Maintain a vintage uniform (thus teaching the boys thrifty and clean at the same time).

Attend troop meetings.

Attend committee meetings as time allows. Inform and apologize when I can't make one. Offer my opinion to the CC only when asked.

Communicate with the SM regularly. Support his views. Coach him where he needs it. Fill in for him when he's not available. (To one of your points, Moose, all of our over-21 ASM's are of a caliber that they can lead an activity if they want to, no SM required.)

Be available for activities. Especially ones where my skills would help.

Keep a healthy distance away from my son's advancement. (Mom can prod him.)

Be the advisor for our venturing crew. (It was either gonna be me or another more qualified ASM. Guess I got the "short" straw. 'Been lovin' it ever since.)

 

I'm sure there are other things, but this is what I expect from myself and other ASM's. I don't know how important it is that I "pay my own dime". But I write it off as charitable contributions anyway.

 

Tried the ASM-to-patrol thing. Big waste of time.

 

[Jay K 15]

Not just ASMs, but every adult should have specific expectations given to them in written form. The form mentions training. Make 'em sign it and keep a copy. Every adult with a Scout in the Troop should have some role, even if it is "Drive 5 scouts to Summer Camp." Then, they should never be expected to do anything that isn't on the expectation sheet. That gives them the power to control their destiny. I bait them by saying "This way you can be involved without the 16 weekends and two weeks/year." A gentle application of mild manipulation works wonders.

 

The big pile of adults is divided into to two piles: Camping and non-camping. The Camping ones are asked to become ASMs and are urged most vigorously to take Scoutmaster Basic, Scoutmaster/ASM specific, IOLS, Youth Protection, and SA/SSD, Climb On, Weather Hazards and whatever else is needed. I will tie them down and train them myself if I have to. No Tickee, no Campee.

 

The Non-camping pile, The "Troop Committee" does all the background stuff, like event sign-up, transportation, the annual charter,Setting up a venue for CoH,etc. They are vigorously urged to take Troop Committee challenge and Youth protection. If I get 80% to take all the required training, I'm good. The ones who don't get trained, get the scut work. Pretty much, they all figure it out.

 

The CC is in charge of all the Adults. I, the Scoutmaster, concentrate on my Scouts, and fine Scouts they are.

 

 

[Jeffrey H 25]

You can have too many ASM's and don't blame the ones that don't show up if the SM has given them nothing to do. You can't wait for them to step up...give them an assignment.

 

I was an ASM for about a year and six months before I went back to my Pack as the new Cubmaster. During my ASM time, my committed role was to support the Troop when we went on campouts and outings. In other words, the SM could always depend on me to provide transportation and adult support on these events. I guess you could say I was the "campout ASM" and that fit me just fine. I got trained by taking SM/ASM Fundamentals Course and IOLS. I do believe that if someone signs up as an ASM, then they commit themselves to serve alongside their SM and be involved in the outdoor program of their Troop. Sometimes an SM can't make a campout and he needs camping support from his ASM's. If the ASM's are not committed to camp, then your Troop will continue to cancel campouts.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

 

 

 

 

[dg98adams 18]

My list of expectations is a lot like Q's

 

 

Pay my own registration, the Troop is a Multiple ASM position.

 

All Training for Position held is complete, including Wood Badge all on my own dime.

 

Maintain certs 1st Aid, CPR, AED, YMCA LifeGuard, BSA Guard, just added NRA RSO, Rifle Instructor (gonna get Pistol Instructor for the Crew) on my own dime as well.

 

Attend Troop meetings & outings.

 

Attend Leader meetings, held just after the PLC....the SM sits on on that one.

 

Support SM, give advice/position when asked. Fill in for him when he's not available.

 

Usually run the Aquatic skills & maintain Unit Web Calender.

 

If I don't spend a week at camp, I visit during the week.

 

I'm one of three ASM's that manage the Blue Cards for Merit Badges.

 

Things I avoid... Popcorn Kernal, Organizing anything to do with being responsible for Fund rasing other than a Car Wash. Treating my son or daughter (Crew member) like relatives at meetings/outings... sometimes I think you would not know we are related if you come on an outing now that they are 16.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[Eagledad 2796]

Its important that any adult who wants to get involved in the program be assigned tasks and given reasonable expectations of performance for the task. But its important to bring in the right person to do the right job. They rarely speak about it, but the number one frustration of Council and district leaders is volunteers taking on responsibilities that they don't perform. The troop is no different. I'm a pretty good recruiter, but I learned over the years to try and put the right person in for the right job, or you just end up frustrated.

 

I also learned over the years that people don't change,s so don't repeat your mistakes. Fail me once, shame on you. Fail me twice, shame on me.

 

Barry