Felony Conviction

[Scoutfish 16]

Yeah, like somebody said earlier, when more info comes out after we commented, we are very apt to change our line of thinking.

 

Just a felony conviction itself doesn't say much. People do dumb stuff at 18 and can totally change their attitude and behavior 180 degrees in just 10 years. Jerks end up being nice people, nice people can become total jerks over time.

 

So in itselfg, not a very descriptive term.

 

But then you bring in more details: The guy is a loner ( in itself not a big deal). The boys really, really neds some mentoring ( again, not a biggie) They get in trouble ( thjat's norm,al) dad may be drugging them( again, could be stupidity working there), They bring a bat to school in a threat to kill somebody( Look, lets be honest, we all say things we don't mean, : "If my child doesn't come home soon, I'll kill him" When what we really meant is we are gonna whip his tail or at the very least, he's in BIG trouble!

 

But one thing here or there isn't a big deal.

 

But add them up and you have problems.

 

Yeah, these boys do need help and mentoring. ALOT OF HELP! But the help you want to offer may not be the right kind of help and/or you may not be qualified to offer it.

 

On top of that, you have to look at the bigger picture: How will this affect the pack and other scouts if something happens? How will Mr.Dad affect other scouts in his position of leadership or affect them in not doing anything as a leader at all but staying in his tent?

 

Will this teach the boys to stay in there tent if they just don't like something? Seriously,. the boys pick up on alot more than we give them credit for. They may not understand whay Mr.Dad stays in his tent, so they might use their own resons to do the same.

 

As far as wife/counselor giving out info...yerah, that is wrong - althjough I understand why it happens. But the thing is, if it ever makes light of day and Mr.Dad finds out, he could persue slander charges and defamation against you, the leadership and the entire pack.

 

And truth is, it doesn't matter if the slander part has no leg to stand on...the whole process will look bad on the pack, district and council.

 

And if you don't like the guy, it's a big wste of time and energy to humor him just to keep the boys around.

[Old_OX_Eagle83 212]

John-in-KC has the right of it, regarding the steps to follow, and the attitude this should be approached with. Being a district scouter sometimes I look past the important first steps.(This message has been edited by Old_OX_Eagle83)

[Papadaddy 121]

My spouse (school nurse) points out that if she had knowledge of a parent drugging their kid with double the adult dose of an OTC drug to control their behavior (an "off label" use), it would merit a call to Child Protective Services. The fact that it's OTC is irrelevant. If there's an underlying medical condition and there's a physician recommendation, fine...CPS will sort it out. But the report would still be made. There are just too many red flags here.

[ScoutMomma898 10]

I say no to felony convictions for any reason and here's why.

 

1. You don't have to be a leader to participate in scouting. He can still be very involved and contribute in a meaningful way and not be a leader. Being a leader does not get the leader anything extra.

 

2. Unless you are willing to print a dossier of all leaders letting parents know that this one is a felon, you are withholding information from parents. At this point parents are not expecting felons past or present to be a part of scout leadership.

 

3. What is an innocent mistake to you, turns into a lawsuit, when you don't consider the next Dad's felon record to be a innocent childhood prank. What we consider to be innocent is relative to our own experiences; what WE want to be looked over in our own lives.

 

You are treading on VERY thin ice.

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I agree with ScoutMom. If you identify someone as a convicted felon and put them in contact with children you are inviting a huge punitive damage claim if something goes wrong. The whole purpose of the background check is to identify people with such convictions. If you were going to ignore them, why bother?

 

People do dumb things when they are young? Yep ---and it can have lifetime consequences.

[Beavah 205]

I just love amateur legal speculations, eh?

 

Folks, there are felonies and there are felonies, eh? It can be anything, but most often it's somethin' that a fellow did as a young man when under the influence of alcohol. Sometimes, folks without a lot of money for a proper defense can even be the victim of an overzealous prosecutor. And in da U.S., for the most part once you've done your time you get to return to the community as a regular, ordinary, productive citizen and family member.

 

These things call for an exercise of intelligent good judgment, of prudence mixed with compassion. And yeh don't go blabbin' gossip all over creation, whether it's about someone's youthful conviction or someone's business indiscretion or whatever da fencepost conversation of the week is. A Scout is Kind.

 

Beavah

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Hello Beavah,

 

 

What you say is no doubt true. But frankly, I'm not trained in sifting the wheat from the chaff. If the Council Executive or his designee wants to approve someone with a felony conviction, they are welcome to do so.

 

 

It's not something I would likely do.

 

A man's gotta know his limitations.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I agree with Beavah here, although in this particular case I get the sense that the "incident" was much more recent than the person's "youth." My initial thought was that if it were a long-long time ago, perhaps the conviction could be expunged if the applicable state law allows, and then nobody would have to worry about it. But I suspect it may be too recent to qualify for expungement; in my state at least, if it is a "felony" it would have to be at least 10 years ago.

 

But in general, I think it is best to look at most things on a case-by-case basis. Obviously if someone were convicted of murder (which never gets expunged in my state, along with a few other very serious crimes), we can have a "zero tolerance" rule. "Assault" is not in the same league.

 

On the other hand, I couldn't help but notice this statement by Beavah:

 

A Scout is Kind.

 

You mean like you were to that software guy in the other thread?

 

[nldscout 18]

There are lots of things that are felonies that the ordinary person doesn't realize are that can affect you differently the rest of your life.

 

Back in the 70's draft dodging was a federal felony conviction. Would you exclude a leader that was convicted of that in 1973? But its still a felony. How about illegal disposal of Solid Waste, thats a felony in a lot of states.

 

I see people of all walks of life in court that got a felony 30-40 yrs ago for a dumb thing, then 30 yrs later something happens and up it pops. Now everyone at first glance thinks your a bad guy.

 

The gentleman in question, if he wants to be a leader should be allowed to send in his application. I am sure he will be quizzed about it. But unless you have first hand knowledge of the underlying event, then its time to but out and let the process work the way its supposed to.

[Eamonn 61]

Sometimes I have a bit of a problem with the word kind.

For me it comes off sounding a little sympathetic. Could be just me?

I kinda think in a case like this respect might be better.

I'm very willing to respect the privacy of others.

I have no real interest in knowing what someone has done or not done.

Everyone takes the background check, then it all comes down to a simple yes or no.

If the person receives a no and is unhappy about it, then he or she needs to talk to someone who knows about it.

In most cases the SE.

The truth is that as a volunteer I can't do anything about it and my feeling is that I shouldn't.

Yes, I've had volunteers who have come to me and said that they had a DUI at sometime and asked if that might have a bearing on if they pass the check or not?

When this happens, all I can do is to tell them to see what happens.

I sure as heck "don't go blabbin' gossip all over creation, whether it's about someone's youthful conviction or someone's business indiscretion or whatever da fencepost conversation of the week"

Not out of any sense of kindness, just out of respect for the person and respect for myself.

 

Ea.