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What part of the Scout Oath and Law are the perpetrators following by hazing this scout? This type of bullying has no place anywhere in the program, and adults that poo poo it are, in my opinion, partially responsible for why this behavior still exists in scouting.

Scouting should be a safe place, where boys can learn and have fun, without the tags some teens try to put on others.

The Camp Director will see the need to deal with this quickly and firmly, as failure to do so will soon be known by all, and his attendance will be hit.

If you think this is going to make it worse for the CIT, then the leaders in camp have failed him by not protecting him and putting a stop to this behavior.

This is a sore spot for me, as I have zero tolerance for hazing.

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I wonder how kind it is to use words like: " the perpetrators"

Toward a group of kids we don't even know?

While giving someone a nickname can not always be kind, sometimes it's done as a way of welcoming and maybe even affection.

I agree that when someone says enough! Then it needs to stop and if it doesn't stop, steps have to be taken.

The problem with zero tolerance is that it doesn't always make sense.


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Scoutmaster T3 and Fellow Scouters,




Here are my thoughts. I concur with Scoutfish comments. It is hazing and bullying, but verbally. They gave the CIT an insulting nickname, and made a bad choice in doing so. What they are probably thinking is funny and hilarious (and harmless) nickname, is damaging and offensive.


My own troop had a brief event of bullying, 12 y/o's and 11 y/o's. It was the younger patrol that erred in judgement. By the next meeting after the campout the program agenda was cancelled, and the SPL presented the course on Bullying from Scouting.org website to the entire troop boys, adult leaders, committee, and parents. It happens; and I would like to say, it was brief, it was correct, and hopefully it will be a long while before it happens again.


Does a 15-16 know they are causing harm and serious hurting a 14 y/o CIT? Nope! Although they can be great Life/Eagle Scouts with nearly stellar records, they can occasionally make a really stupid error.


Contacting the Camp Director is the correct move. I expect all the older counselors are good kids, but they definitely need to be educated and make amends to this counselor in training.


I've been a parent, a Scout leader and a Summer Camp Staffer. I think a good Camp Director could tell, if they meant to be harmful or if they made a sincere stupid error. I expect a good Director could tell if an apology is sincere or vain. If the Camp Director doesn't correct the problem and align their team, they won't be Camp Director for much longer. In the next few days, ask your Scout if the insulting nickname are still continuing, or if they ceased and he actually feels like part of the team.


Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

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Point of clarity - in most councils, staffers are members of a Venture crew, even for CITs and volunteer staffers. His leader during his time at camp is the person in charge of that Venture crew, not the Scoutmaster of his home troop.

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" I concur with Scoutfish comments. It is hazing and bullying, but verbally. They gave the CIT an insulting nickname, and made a bad choice in doing so. What they are probably thinking is funny and hilarious (and harmless) nickname, is damaging and offensive. "


Yeah, but I sam not necessarily saying that hazing or bullying is the INTENT of the boys.


Sometrimes, good intentions can backfire and explode in our face. We think we are being friendly and breaking the ice while the person on the other end is feeling attacked, insulted or worse.


I'm just saying that even though it isn't a good thing that is happening, we shouldn't go in and reprimanding the boys for being jerks. We should tell them it's not cool, but give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not trying to be malicious.


On a side note: The CIT doesn't need to just simply say: "Stop it, you are hurting my feelings!"


If it wasn't intentional hurt, he will come off sounding like a fragile crybaby type..then he will get ragged for it.


If it was intentional, then he just confirmed to the bullies that they hit the sweet spot.


What this CIT needs to do is basically say something along the lines of: "Really? Is that it? What eare we .....in 5th grade? " Then laugf it off as he walks away.


THis will tell bulliez (if that is what they are) that their names and taunts are ineffective.


If the INTENT was good, but just failed...they will pretty apologize and much own up to it being an attempt to make him part of the club.


Depending on what happens...then you decide how to pursue this, if it even needs pursueing.



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Nicknames are one thing... can build comraderie, make the team cohere, lend uniqueness and individuality to a group...

But this is NOT that. This name is meant to belittle, to put in his place, to give a "test" to the young Scout. And it is NOT Scoutlike, NOT appropriate, and is NOT to be tolerated without response.

The CIT did the right thing. He contacted an adult he trusted, his SM. He could have called his parent, but he didn't, ostentiably because it is a "Scout" thing. So the SM calls the Camp Director, and hopefully the CD will do the right thing. If it was me, I would first call in the CIT and ask him about the situation, and LISTEN, making him aware that this was not acceptable, that I would make sure everyone realizes it. I would not single out anyone, or ask for any names. I would then call a general staff meeting and do a discussion about bullying and name calling. I seem to remember a BSA video about this topic.

Then, I would keep my ear to the grapevine, so to speak. If the boy(s) responsible do not get the message, it will become apparent again. Then, take names and get specific.


My Scoutson, when he first joined his Troop, met up with the then SPL, who was a BIG kid, frontline on his football team. Seemed he liked to give the new Scouts "funny" names. Scoutson didn't think his was so funny, it was an ethnic pun-slur on his family name. Scoutson came to me, and we talked about the big SPL's possible purpose in his renaming the new Scouts. I called the father of the SPL, explained the situation, and he agreed that this might be a result of his son being the "new" guy on the football team, and he was mistakenly taking the team's habit of nicknames to an extreme. SPL came to Scoutson and apologized. They eventually became good friends. even tho they were 4 years apart.

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  • 1 month later...

I was actually tagged with this nickname by a couple of the older Scouts (15-16 y.o.'s) when I became active with my home troop after college, just a couple of years after the character's debut. (I suppose because I exhibited some of the traits of the character - young, knowledgeable, somewhat shy).


Even though I didn't know anything about the character at the time (I rarely watch SNL at all), I made it clear that it wasn't an acceptable nickname and didn't otherwise respond to it. Eventually, they got the message and started using my name (Mr. ----).


As an aside, I'd been tagged with various derogatory nicknames nearly all through gradeschool, and wound up ignoring most of the fools who used them. Still, it was not pleasant to go through and I still resent some of those nicknames when I think back on those experiences. As a result, I don't tolerate anyone using a derogatory nickname in my presence.


In this case, given the history of the character being referred to, just ignoring it would not be enough. It should be referred to the higher authority in charge of the staff (Camp Program Director or the Camp Director), who should make it clear to all of the staff that any form of hazing or bullying will not be tolerated.

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Eamonn posted:

"The problem with zero tolerance is that it doesn't always make sense."

Alabama Scouter asks:

"Got to ask you E, just when does it make sense to you to allow hazing?"

I'm not sure where I said that hazing made sense?

Please explain.







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I'm with Eamonn - zero tolerance does not always make sense because it often ends up either 1) outlawing things that it didn't really mean to outlaw or 2) having a punishment that can be far worse than the offense should actually have.


Any actual hazing should be stopped. What gets hard is to define the precise line at which something becomes hazing. You can often jump in and nip something in the bud before it becomes actual hazing.


This particular case is clearly over the line and should be stopped, but not being there, it can be hard to tell how bad it is or whether it would likely be a problem if the older boys were told to stop.


We had a presentation at camp on bullying. They defined it as deliberately hurtful, repeated actions involving an imbalance of power. Our schools add the word 'unwelcome'.


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NO. The young man is in the service of the Council, through the Camps' hiring procedures.


In the Council I serve, CITs receive contracts. They're for a week, they're for room/board only, but they are contracts.


The proper reporting path is to his Lodge Director, Program Director, or Camp Director ... whoever he feels most comfortable in making the report.


At the same time, now that T3 is aware of it, his call should be to the Camp Director and the COR. COR should be contacting the Chairman of the Council Camping Committee, and asking what's going on.

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