kahits Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'm curious, if there are any good recommendations (as in a source) for ropes that work well for lashing. I'm thinking of proposing a structure for our spring camporee, but want to make sure it can be built and stay intact over a long weekend, without coming loose. Spring Camporee around here is always a high wind affair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
struax Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Do a google search on American Rope & Tar they have varying size of line both for whipping and lashing YIS Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal_Crawford Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I would recommend either manila rope or a synthetic equivalent made from polypropylene. The following link will give you a price comparison. http://www.us-rope-cable.com/HTML/manila-rope.html?gclid=CPazkOnDxZgCFQxKGgodWTf_1A Manila is fine but splintery. Good idea to wear gloves while handling it. It is an organic material (I have heard it described as coherent compost) so it loses strength over time but this shouldn't be a problem for lashing. It is a consideration for lifting which is why a 10:1 safety factor is used for overhead lifting. It is much cheaper than any synthetic alternative. This is important as you will probably need a lot of it. Synthetic manila stronger and does not splinter but costs a lot more. I recommend purchasing the rope locally. Buy it by the 600' or 1200' spools to get the best price. As a theatre technical director I have bought a lot of rope. My local source is a steel supply company which sells rigging supplies. If you live near a college that has a theatre department, call them and ask for the technical director, odds are he/she will know the best local source for rope. ONE IMPORTANT NOTE: DON'T TRY TO SAVE BY ASKING ANYONE FOR USED ROPE. You don't know how old it is, how it was used etc. You would have to assume the breaking strength is zero. I say this because I was once working on the renovation of a theatre rigging system. As the crew as dragging the old rope to the dumpster a gentleman came up and identified himself as a scout leader. He asked if he could have the rope to use with his scouts for "climbing". The rope was 3/4" manila, heavily used and some of it could have been 30+ years old! Totally wrong for climbing and dangerous to use for anything where strength was important, like monkey bridges. We told him that he couldn't have it and why but we all got the sense that he was going to come dumpster diving after we left. We took the rope back inside and cut it into 3' lengths before throwing it away. Our good turn to protect scouts from a dangerous leader. Good luck with your camporee. Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Skipper Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 For lashing, I really like manila. It is cheap compared to some advanced synthetics and looks like a lashing should look. American Rope & Tar specializes in a synthetic product to simulate manila; it has a great reputation and is durable and strong, but somewhat pricy for scout use. For lashing, 3/8" is great. Purchase by the spool and insist on the boys whipping all ends before using. Once you get them in the habit, they should be able to whip an end in 60-90 seconds. Here are some good supplies for manila, or look for another--there are many suppliers out there. http://www.ropeinc.com/cat-manila.html https://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(ufhcfdfkjhw4j045fycebd55)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=74343 Consider a spool of 1/2" for other projects; we also keep a spool of 1/4" manila and 3/16 parachute cord for other miscelaneous uses. If you do things like a rope bridge or tug of war, you may want a thicker diameter, but for this you may want to buy a specific length to keep the cost reasonable. Anyway, what troop really needs 600' of 1" manila? Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrentAllen Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 We bought a good bit of manilla from this company, and have been very pleased. http://www.e-rigging.com/store_products.cfm?Subcat_ID=210&Cat_ID=50&Menu_Choice=Catalog Their prices were much lower than others, so when I called, I said we would be using it for Boy Scout lashing projects and asked if this rope would be appropriate. She said her son was in Scouts, and they use it all the time. We purchased 1,200' of 1/4" and 600' of 1/2". We picked up a 100' piece of 3/4" for our monkey bridge. We might look at replacing that with 1" in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahits Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 I was told by an experienced scouter, who did alot of pioneering work, that manila needed to be wetted down to keep it's purchase on the poles, and did not like using it, because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal_Crawford Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I haven't ever felt the need to wet down manila rope. It is subject to humidity and moisture; more so than synthetics. Damp or wet rope gets shorter and fatter; dryer rope gets thinner and longer. It is an issue in stage rigging because lines have to be adjusted whenever there is a shift in humidity. Those who have been to a jamboree can attest that we do in fact have humidity here in Virginia. Maybe manila behaves differently in the dry air of the SW. I don't think it should make much of a difference with lashing as the lengths are short and the frapping should give it all the purchase it needs. Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Things to remember (and rarely mentioned, it seems) with big, serious pioneering projects: *Nylon rope will stretch. I was given some Plymouth Cordage "Goldline", a twisted 5/8 inch rope, used for climbing. I rigged it with a 2 sheeve, 4 fall, block and tackle to move a large rock. When I pulled on the rope, the rock did not move but the rope strretched to more than twice its original length without breaking. Then the rock moved! Such stretching is good for shock absorbing in climbing and such cord may not stretch (and loosen)in lashing use, but consider it. *Synthetics slip in knots and lashing, if not counter tied correctly. The cord is smooth. *As has been mentioned, natural cord (manila, hemp, cotton) can be wetted before use and then will shrink somewhat after tieing and tighten thereby. *Lashings must be as TIGHT as you can pull them. If the knots are the least bit loose, the lashing will loosen. The wraps should be snug and the fraps should be TIGHT. Ending and beginning clove hitches (or other knot, as appropriate) need to be rotated around the poles so as to not be able to be pulled around further. *I've seen wire cord (steel cable) used in big, pro installations (harbor piers, etc.) but should never be used in Scout pioneering installations. *Most cord packages list "working" limits and "breaking" limits. Double the working limits for judging your use. * And don't forget the Fourth Law of Motion: "You can't push a rope." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahits Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 Thanks, SSS, Very good key points you listed there. I'm going to try the manila for Camporee. It is very dry in NM, if any of you have lived here. We love it, and absolutely are adverse to the humidity the rest of the country takes for granted. Makes it hard to justify Jamboree, along with the pricey cost to go. He basically described wetting the rope and then, depending on how long it was up, having to rewet it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal_Crawford Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 SSScout: Did you mean to say double the working limit? That reduces the safety factor. For manila, our industry standard is 10:1. If the breaking strength is 1000# then the Safe Working Load would be 100#. Some use 8:1 but I would never go down to 5:1 with manila. This is because manila is more susceptible to wear and abuse than say wire rope or even some synthetics. None of this really matters for lashing. The strength comes from the wraps and fraps and I doubt you could actually compute the load on the rope. I would still go with manila for lashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I have found the best prices at: http://www.memphisnet.net/category/s/3" and http://www.nylonnet.com/merchandise/?top_cat=96&cat_nav=120&sub_cat=287&cat=287 In the past I've purchased tens of thousands of dollars of rope and nets from these vendors and they are great to do business with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hal: Thanks for the finger pointing. Yes, dispite what I wrote, I meant the reverse. HALF the working limit. I guess I was thinking, if the need is to support 100#, then look for a working limit of 200#. Tie me kangaroo down, boys, tie me kangaroo down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 We buy 1/4" and 3/8" manila rope in 1200' rolls from E.W. Evans Cordage, Cranston,RI http://twevans.com/categories.asp?cat=68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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