copyright rules???

[VentureRobb]

I am a little upset right now and I need to vent a little so please bear with me and please give me some thoughts on what you would do in this situation.

 

I am chairing our Klondike derby with a venturing theme and yesterday I found out that we can not use the ventuing logo on the patches due to copyright rules. Now we have one week to do a patch for a venture themed event without using the venturing logo. How is it that a Venture crew can not use the venturing logo on something as simple as a patch. We decided to use venturing as the theme to get the program more notice now our main bit of advertisement per say has been taken away with 1 week till patches are due.

Thank you for letting me vent a little and look forward to opions on this matter

[evmori]

Me thinks whoever told you this doesn't know what they are talking about. Check with National for the details.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[LongHaul]

If the information that you are not allowed to use the Venturing Logo came from your SE or ASE directly then you are in trouble. If it came from a paid professional of lesser rank I'd contact your ASE or SE directly. Yes all logos are copyrighted material and TECHNICALLY we are supposed to ask for permission of the local council before including them on materials we produce ourselves. That said let me ask you this "What can 'they' do to you if you use the logo anyway?" Do you really think 'they' will try to physically stop you from distributing the patches? What this soounds like to me is not a matter of "You can't" but a situation where "You should not have.." What I'm reading is the use of Venture Crew and Venturing and am not sure if they are being applied correctly. There is no such thing as a Venture Crew. It's either a Venturing Crew or a Venture Patrol. One is a serperate unit with a seperate charter and the other is a part of a Boy Scout Troop. If your speaking of a Venturing Crew then use the logo. If it's a Venture Patrol then "You should not have.."

 

LongHaul(This message has been edited by LongHaul)(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[epalmer84]

I'm confused as well.

 

The uniform, insignia and emblems are variously protected by copyright, trademark, and congressional charter.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode36/usc_sec_36_00030905----000-.html

 

You can also check Use of Organizational Identity and Program Symbols:

http://www.scouting.org/identity/

 

As I understand it, all of the BSA logos are fair use within the program. U.S. Scouting Service Project is using the logo. The Scouting project on Wikipedia has permission to use BSA emblems.

 

I suspect a failure to communicate.

 

Ed

[EagleInKY]

Here's the "official" rules from the BSA website. Generally, if you follow the rules regarding logo, size, color, etc., you shouldn't have any concern.

 

http://www.scouting.org/identity/contents/11.html

 

The trademarks and logos of the Boy Scouts of America are protected by a 1916 act of Congress (36 U.S.C. 27) as well as by a variety of registrations with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. The 1916 act specifically gives the Boy Scouts of America the sole and exclusive right to use its "emblems, badges, descriptive and designating marks" in connection with carrying out its purposes.

 

These and all art or logotypes obtained from the National Council, Boy Scouts of America, are the exclusive property of the Boy Scouts of America and must be used and displayed as shown in this manual or official artwork unless otherwise stated in writing from an authorized officer of the Boy Scouts of America. In other words, they must appear with any ownership symbols exactly as received, and no additional symbols are to appear in connection with them.

 

If the manual or official artwork indicates that the artwork or logotype is the subject of a U.S. Trademark Registration Certificate, then it should appear with the symbol. It is customary that the symbol is used once in the headline of an advertisement (if it is used in an ad or a poster) and then the first time it is used in the text.

 

The symbol is placed on the upper right-hand shoulder of the last letter of the trademark (if it is a word mark) or on the upper right-hand shoulder of the symbol (if it is a design mark) and in a size that is approximately one-third the size of the largest letter or element in the trademark (but never so small that it can't be read).

 

It is also desirable, but not as critical, to place a statement at the bottom of any advertisement or poster that clearly identifies trademarks or design marks of the Boy Scouts of America. This might read as follows:

 

"BE PREPARED is a registered trademark of the Boy Scouts of America."

 

If you have any questions concerning correct trademark usage, please contact the Custom Communication Division at the national office for further guidance.

[bbng]

http://www.scouting.org/identity/contents/12.html

 

TRADEMARK AND SIGNATURE ARTWORK

For your convenience, the following trademarks and signatures files are Macintosh- and PC-compatible. Each file is provided in black-and-white and color versions in both Macintosh and PC formats. This variety of versions and formats will enable you to import the graphics into electronic documents or provide them to vendors producing your support materials.

 

= = = = =

The above seems to give permission with the stipulations that the logos etc be used in accordance with the policies that EagleinKY posted. On the link I just added, there are Venturing logos.

[LongHaul]

Thank You! bbng

If you will look at the link bbng has supplied you will notice that these are NOT the images we normally use on our patches. The clip art and reproductions we do use are not those which are officially approved by National. Note the references to size, color, shape,etc. which is mentioned in all the links referring to permission to reproduce. Also note the part where it says that the image must appear exactly as received with no other images connected with them. The patches we have made always have other details on them along with BSA images. If we are going to haul out legal documents and "official" text be sure we read it as written and know what we are reading. The ONLY time I can recall in all my years of anybody getting into trouble using BSA images is when they tried to reproduce event patches and sell them as originals. Does anyone know of an instance where someone got into trouble using a BSA image on patch for an approved event?

LongHaul(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[Miki101]

You have to go through an authorized BSA licencee (patch mfg. inthis case)to use BSA trademarks. Try Classb.com first.

 

This was done to protect the BSA franchise and to keep control over rightful usage and also to receive proper royalty payments for BSA's IP.

[Crew21_Adv]

Venture Robb,

 

Greetings!

 

I'm inclined to agree with LongHaul and our fellow posters.

 

As I understand, almost all of the BSA logos are copyrighted, but may be used with permission. To include these logos being place on patches, t-shirts, coffee mugs and etc. Permission should be granted by the SE, after recommendation of the respective council executive board.

 

Council and District events usually get the "rubber stamp" approval, without any hesitation on the logo use, but only editing the artwork itself. My local Venturers and Arrowmen have obtained SE approval for the reproduction of copyright logos imbedded in event patches, I have a few of these patches in my own collection.

 

There are still Scouters that have eventually been permitted to produce amateur scouting patches. I.E. BSA National Supply has yet to produce knots on green background, or seascouting knots on white and black backgrounds. Some Scouters and their units which have received national BSA permission to recreate knots and other BSA copyright items are; Venturing Crew #697, SageVenturer, Rafi Sharif, and The Ship's Store.

 

Still there are other Scouters that have created spoof patches, which are very popular as Scouting gag gift items or recognitions. (Southern Drawl, html, overtrained, The Sopranos OA pocket flap, the list could go on for a while)

 

My bottom line is.

 

Are BSA logos copyrighted? Yes. As I understand.

 

Can use of copyrighted BSA logos be authorized? Yes, by request, and permission of the SE. As I understand.

 

Take everyone's advice (mine included) with a grain of salt. And submit your patch design to your Council Scout Executive via your Council Executive Committee, requesting to use the Venturing logo.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

[Crew21_Adv]

VentureRobb,

 

I guess I'm not done yet. While reviewing the National Venturing Cabinet and Central Region Venturing page.....

 

I came accross the photo gallery of their 2006 Central Region Venturing Area 2 Assemblage (camporee). They have an image of their event patch, with the Venturing Logo inside the patch.

 

http://www.crventuring.org/photogallery.php?id=28&page=2

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[VentureRobb]

Thank you all for your advice on this matter and I understand where you guys are coming from but my situation is all patch companys do not have permition to use the logo. I have been infomed that this will take about 6 mos to correct.This is a new situation that most people do not know about.this also goes for t shirts also

[LongHaul]

Exactly who is telling you this? We use a tenderfoot type image on almost all our event patches. The Council just ran an event and the patches were produced by a firm I know paid absolutely no royalties to anyone. That particular patch had the Cub Scout, BoyScout, Venture, Venturing, and Commisioners Logos on it! Again I ask who it telling you this, unless it's the SE run the patches as you intended and correct it next time. BSA will not missthe money but the boys will surely miss the patches.

LongHaul

[VentureRobb]

The patch company will not print the logo without permission from national and my DE called Texas on this matter that is when I found out it would take 6 mos for all the companys to get the paperwork done.

[moxieman]

The patch company will not print the logo without permission from national and my DE called Texas on this matter that is when I found out it would take 6 mos for all the companys to get the paperwork done.

 

Sounds like you're dealing with a company that has never done BSA-related patches before. Maybe you could try a different company. Several advertise in Scouting Magazine.