And why is this something that is unique all of a sudden? "Scout Slogan" in action.

[skeptic]

When our council started adding a "fee" for these types of things a majority of our leaders sound off negatively.  After poor attendance due to the fee stuff, partly due to units refusing to particpate, they revised the program.  They now find sponsors for costs and no scout is charged.  Guess what, attendance grew dramatically.  The next step then was a group meting of leaders where our concerns were hear, mostly not prepping the prerequisites and working on unit communications.  I personally stopped doing counseling for the events, and I told them why, though part was just my age and related issues, it was also getting few follow ups from the partials.  Those that came prepared, also tended to follow up and arrange a meeting to finish.  And that is how I feel it should shake out.  I should note that I did have a few parents and a leader or two that were upset I did not sign the blue cards automatically.  But, I also had a couple that were glad I did not.  

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

When our council started adding a "fee" for these types of things a majority of our leaders sound off negatively.  After poor attendance due to the fee stuff, partly due to units refusing to particpate, they revised the program.  They now find sponsors for costs and no scout is charged.  Guess what, attendance grew dramatically.  The next step then was a group meting of leaders where our concerns were hear, mostly not prepping the prerequisites and working on unit communications.  I personally stopped doing counseling for the events, and I told them why, though part was just my age and related issues, it was also getting few follow ups from the partials.  Those that came prepared, also tended to follow up and arrange a meeting to finish.  And that is how I feel it should shake out.  I should note that I did have a few parents and a leader or two that were upset I did not sign the blue cards automatically.  But, I also had a couple that were glad I did not.  

 

Guide to Advancement, para 7.0.2.3...

"It is sometimes reported that Scouts who have received merit badges through group instructional settings have not fulfilled all the requirements. To offer a quality merit badge program, council and district advancement committees should ensure the following are in place for all group instructional events.

• A culture is established for merit badge group instructional events that partial completions are acceptable expected results.

• A guide or information sheet is distributed in advance of events that promotes the acceptability of partials, explains how merit badges can be finished after events, lists merit badge prerequisites, and provides other helpful information that will establish realistic expectations for the number of merit badges that can be earned at an event. "

If only we would follow our own literature

[Tron]

19 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Guide to Advancement, para 7.0.2.3...

"It is sometimes reported that Scouts who have received merit badges through group instructional settings have not fulfilled all the requirements. To offer a quality merit badge program, council and district advancement committees should ensure the following are in place for all group instructional events.

• A culture is established for merit badge group instructional events that partial completions are acceptable expected results.

• A guide or information sheet is distributed in advance of events that promotes the acceptability of partials, explains how merit badges can be finished after events, lists merit badge prerequisites, and provides other helpful information that will establish realistic expectations for the number of merit badges that can be earned at an event. "

If only we would follow our own literature

Council and district advancement committees?! Send me to the promised land where these exist, meet, and care about more than eagle packets.

[jcousino]

On 5/5/2026 at 8:02 AM, InquisitiveScouter said:

At last night's meeting, one of my Scouts proudly presented a counselor-signed blue card for a merit badge.  (No leader signature.)  He had attended, on short notice, a "merit badge event" at a local museum (where he had to pay a fee)  and had been counselor-approved for a badge.

When I asked him about the badge, I sprinkled in the questions I always ask...

1.  Did you read the requirements for the merit badge? "No"

2.  Did you talk with a Troop leader before meeting with the counselor? "No"

3.  Did the counselor review the requirements for the merit badge with you before starting? "No"

So then, we reviewed the requirements....  one of the requirements was a task that he could not have completed at the event...

4.  Did the counselor ask you to bring any work you had completed ahead of time? "No"

5.  So how did the counselor see your work for requirement X ??  "He never saw it." (Later, at home, I check the website for this event, and there are no pre-requisites listed.)

6.  Oh?  Well, did you complete requirement X?  "Yes, I did it at home after I got back."  Would you show me that work?  He does... Good job!

7.  But, the counselor gave you a signed and completed blue card without having X done? "Yes"

OK, thanks!  Hey, let's review the instructions in your Scout Handbook on how to earn a merit badge (page 416).  We review together, and I emphasize the appropriate points...  I review blue card instructions with him.  I show him the statement on the blue card which says "The applicant has personally appeared before me and demonstrated to my satisfaction that all requirements have been met for the..."  We talk about the meaning of "Trustworthy" and "Obedient", and whether the counselors actions reflected those values, and what he, the Scout, should do in a case like this.  (Let a leader know  )

I signed the card and congratulated him on his badge.

So, given that, in the past, I have never once gotten feedback on any of the concerns I submitted, once again I submitted Reporting Merit Badge Counseling Concerns. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-800_WB.pdf

Do you think I'll get any constructive feedback on this one?

NO feedback; another paper filed in the trash. The only action from council would be if the youth did not receive their mb, as when parents complain. There is no QA in any merit badges as long as the Scout gets their badge and no  parent complaints; all is well  mb have become meaningless. Like the Scouts' ranks. sorry no honor in scouting at the council levels 

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

7 minutes ago, jcousino said:

NO feedback; another paper filed in the trash. The only action from council would be if the youth did not receive their mb, as when parents complain. There is no QA in any merit badges as long as the Scout gets their badge and no  parent complaints; all is well  mb have become meaningless. Like the Scouts' ranks. sorry no honor in scouting at the council levels 

 

A sad, but true, indictment...

[Tron]

National knows that there is a problem. National has some effort going into recruiting subject matter experts and having national level people train them correctly on the MB process. The issue is at the council and district level, and I believe that is because the MBC training is too brief, has no test, never expires, and far too many people are teaching MB and not even registered as an MBC.

 

National could fix this, I would propose a 3 step solution.

S1) Update MBC training, apply a test, training expires every 2 years.

S2) Tell councils that they cannot restrict the number of MB an MBC can teach, instead tell councils they can only restrict what is considered qualified to be an MBC.

S3) Force every district and council committee to have sitting and meeting MB committees.

[InquisitiveScouter]

I perceive no appetite at the unit, district, council, or national levels to police this.

Enforcing any kind of integrity into the process would hamper the money flow of summer camps and merit badge events, and make Jimmy or Jenny less competitive on their college applications.

I have had numerous discussions with parents who absolutely expect that, if they pay their $600 camp fee, then their child had better have a multitude of merit badges to show for it. 

Many parents don't give a hoot about values, ethics, and morals.  And we wonder why so many kids do not join Scouting, or if they do, do not stick with it.

Once they realize the emperor has no clothes, the ones with a good measure of integrity are tempted to pull their kids from the program. 

As long as merit badges are available for sale (and I do not mean the pieces of cloth...), then we will have this problem.

Pay your fee, get your degree?

[Tron]

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I perceive no appetite at the unit, district, council, or national levels to police this.

Enforcing any kind of integrity into the process would hamper the money flow of summer camps and merit badge events, and make Jimmy or Jenny less competitive on their college applications.

I have had numerous discussions with parents who absolutely expect that, if they pay their $600 camp fee, then their child had better have a multitude of merit badges to show for it. 

Many parents don't give a hoot about values, ethics, and morals.  And we wonder why so many kids do not join Scouting, or if they do, do not stick with it.

Once they realize the emperor has no clothes, the ones with a good measure of integrity are tempted to pull their kids from the program. 

As long as merit badges are available for sale (and I do not mean the pieces of cloth...), then we will have this problem.

Pay your fee, get your degree?

I totally get this, I'm even a parent who expects MB at summer camp, though the pressure is on my kids to actually perform. God help them if they come back from camp with a partial; partials trigger the old "What were you doing instead of completing this?!" and subsequent chastising about how much they are applying themselves and how much they would apply themselves if it was their own money.

 

 

[skeptic]

It is interesting that the original question I posed had to do with why the media picked up story that basically represents someone outside of scouting doing a good deed, and treated it as special. Meanwhile we have the Slogan that we in theory expect our youth to consider doing, but we seldom discuss the subject.  A while back I stepped in early in the meeting and posed the query to the group, asking them to describe how they may have met that concept of the Slogan.  The discussion morphed into a real interactive thing.  We talked about a good deed, and what it meant.  We talked about how large an effect it might have and whether simply holding a door, for example was a good deed, and that counted.  They should not consider themselves a failure in regard to the Slogan if it was not extraordinary.  It eventually morphed into also talking about how the Motto interacted with the Slogan, and touched on the Law.  

The larger question that now comes to me is how often do we bypass these kinds of opportunities?  Do we so focus on getting the "plan" for the meeting accomplished that we lose opportunities?  Maybe we need to not be so fixated on some things, but instead listen for these opportunities and explore with our youth.  I just read a FB piece about how we, as adults and too often educators, neuter the curiosity of our youth for various reasons.  It discussed at what age the kids stop asking why, and how it is related to our NOT taking the time to find out if we do not, ourselves, know.  How, if we change direction and explore it with them, that it may have a much larger impact on them, but we also open ourselves again to curiosity.  The article was really leading up to an encyclopedic book on what are the most common "why or what" questions of young kids.  But, while it was come on for the book, it also did open my eyes a bit more, even at my age.  

We may need to step back a bit and reevaluate our approaches, not just in Scouting, but in general.  I am 82, and I just realized that I have actually learned something about the larger world, and also have gotten a different perspective on why we may do what we do.