CPR/AED... "Training" versus "Certification"

[InquisitiveScouter]

Wanted the forum's thoughts on this topic.

Here's the background...

I am a CPR/AED (and First Aid and Wilderness First Aid) Instructor.  I train about 50 people each year in BSA, and issue certificates from the organization certifying me as an instructor.

The training books, materials, and certificates for the courses have a cost, most of which goes to the certifying organization.

When I organize and offer a course, I explain the fees associated, and I do not tack on extra fees to generate an income.  Basically, I offer the training for free, but ask for a cost to cover the items above.  This helps keeps costs extremely low for our volunteer leaders.  And because of this practice, I have many more requests for courses than I can offer.  I have to turn lots of folks away, because I do not run my training as a business as many others do.  (The market rate locally for an in-person, hands-on, CPR/AED class is about $100.)

I keep records of all courses, and the syllabus I teach for each specific class.

After issuing certificates, I also submit a training report to council for N06, CPR/AED.

Due to economic pressures in some units, I have been asked (I am purposely vague there) to provide training, but not to issue "official" certificates (due to cost), and then further asked to submit training attendance to council for N06 CPR/AED for tracking in adult leader records, so they are covered with respect to the Guide to Safe Scouting which requires "training" instead of "certification".)

So, we have a distinction between the two statuses, certification versus training, with one difference: one has a paid certificate from the issuing agency, and the other does not.

I have been thinking a lot about this and researching BSA "requirements" (for adults and youth), and state and federal laws and have the following observations/thoughts.

1.  If a person attempts CPR and AED use without training or certification, they are covered by Good Samaritan acts and Federal legislation.

2. We would desire that everyone be "trained" in CPR and AED use.

3.  Some businesses and occupations require CPR "certification."

4.  Guide to Advancement 2025 does not require a certification, per se, for rank requirements or merit badges, but specifies *Note to the Counselor: CPR instruction, wherever it is required, must be taught by people currently trained as CPR instructors by a nationally certified provider such as the American Red Cross, the Emergency Care and Safety Institute, or the American Heart Association."

5.  BSA has no specific prescription (that I can find) for awarding N06 training code.  When entered, N06 has an expiration of 2 years, in line with all certifying agencies...

Currently, I have no issue with training and testing folks according to an approved syllabus, and awarding CPR/AED N06 without them paying for a certificate. 

What are your thoughts?

I was going to punt to BSA National Health and Safety Committee, but, as @qwazse says... 😜 

 

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by InquisitiveScouter

[MikeS72]

As long as they realize that there are situations where BSA does require a copy of the certification card, such as meeting health officer requirements for day camps, etc. and that just having NO6 in their training on my.scouting will not suffice; I would rather they know what to do in case of an emergency than having a piece of paper in their wallet.

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

As long as they realize that there are situations where BSA does require a copy of the certification card, such as meeting health officer requirements for day camps, etc. and that just having NO6 in their training on my.scouting will not suffice; I would rather they know what to do in case of an emergency than having a piece of paper in their wallet.

Agree!

[InquisitiveScouter]

17 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

As long as they realize that there are situations where BSA does require a copy of the certification card, such as meeting health officer requirements for day camps, etc. and that just having NO6 in their training on my.scouting will not suffice; I would rather they know what to do in case of an emergency than having a piece of paper in their wallet.

BTW, I have had conversations with Camp Directors on this wrt NCAP.  And wherever the standard is vague or conflicting, they have interpreted it in their favor (training versus certification).  I know a Camp Director who also asked for clarification from National on this issue... and got no response.  So he used "training" versus "certification" to meet NCAP requirements.

[SSScout]

Funny you should mention....

I have been trying to organize/schedule  CPR/AED training for some time and by chance at a recent  IOLS/BALLOO weekend, met a Scouter who does such things.  We got it scheduled, and it will occur tomorrow.

There is a fee, which I find reasonable for what is offered. He remits his share BACK to  the org that he works with.  We have publicized it in local Scout Troop, District and Council Campfire sites, and in our local newspaper and in our church. One of the rationales for this is  our House of Worship is FINALLY to  buy/install an AED.  

Now to the frustrating parts... 1) we have been greatly underwhelmed by the sign ups.  We shall see how many they have from the internet sign up.... 2) One Scout enquiry was to ask about  "the CPR Merit Badge Class, and what rank requirement it met".  I had to respond that it was NOT a "Merit Badge Class" (they might have thought it was First Aid?), that it  was instruction in the skill, and as to what, if any, rank requirement it fulfilled to ask his Scout Master.  3) Since I work at a Retirement Community, I am required to take just this sort of training.  I can say that since my Paleolistic days as a Scout, up to my present state, I have learned no fewer than five techniques to deal with loss of breathing/heart attacks, each an improvement on the prior.  I can claim only two times when this training has been of value,  one very good, one not so. 

I tell people it's like wearing your motorcycle helmet or your auto seat belt.... you may only need this training once, but which once?