AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) I just saw this article, and because I can see this going a lot of tense and/or political directions I'm putting this in Issues & Politics. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/st-louis-mom-says-girl-scouts-warned-troop-stop-selling-bracelets-pale-rcna140257 St. Louis mom says Girl Scouts warned her troop to stop selling bracelets as Palestinian fundraiser A St. Louis, Missouri, mother said the Girl Scouts organization threatened her with legal action after her troop sold bracelets to help Palestinian children. Nawal Abuhamdeh said her daughter's troop decided to make bracelets and donate the money rather than participate in the annual cookie sale. Abuhamdeh, who is Palestinian, has led her troop's cookie fundraising event since 2019. But because of the Israel-Hamas war, she said they troop did not have the "energy to be able to sell cookies to a community, especially in a time of crisis." (...) The eight-member troop, which includes girls from Indian, Pakistani, Somalin, Palestinian, Syrian and Jordanian backgrounds, led the project, Abuhamdeh said. They held meetings about what material to use and where beads should be placed. The girls decided to sell beaded bracelets for $5 and clay designs for $10 and donate the money to Palestine Children Relief Fund. (...) Almost immediately, Abuhamdeh said she received an email from Girl Scouts of Eastern Missouri telling her to remove anything that associated Girl Scouts with the bracelets. "It felt very cold and just full of reprimand and demand," Abuhamdeh said. "Demanding that I remove Girl Scout's logo … disassociate ourselves from the organization and just continue this on our own personal time, deeming it as political and partisan, claiming that they have to be inclusive to all members and that they should be neutral on all sides." (...) A spokesperson for Girl Scouts of the USA said that its policies state that Girl Scouts and volunteers are not allowed to fundraise "for purposes other than Girl Scouting." Fundraising restrictions are lifted in rare cases, which included a brief period in late 2023 and early 2024 that allowed fundraisers related to the Israel-Hamas war, the spokesperson said in a statement. "Girl Scouts of the USA and our local Girl Scout Councils build girls of courage, confidence and character who make the world a better place, and we encourage all members to stand up for the issues important to them," the spokesperson said. "Additionally, girls can always decide as a troop to use their cookie proceeds and donate them to charities of their choice that appear on Charity Navigator." Abuhamdeh said she that was disappointed in the Girl Scouts' response to the troop's bracelet fundraiser, and that after meeting with the other parents, the troop decided to disband. "It triggered emotions I felt growing up. Anytime I would express myself or tell people proudly that I was a Palestinian, I would often be met with words of, like, ‘That’s threatening.’ I would be confused growing up," she said. "That, I think, was what I was feeling. Just disappointment … and I was really sad." The girls continued to sell bracelets, but briefly stopped after reaching 600 orders from across the country, Abuhamdeh said. They plan to begin selling them again this weekend. I see the line GSUSA is drawing here very clearly. I cringed when I saw the picture of the bracelet. I read about what other GSUSA troops did to support Ukrainians (not the nation-state Ukraine as a party in the conflict, and during a special dispensation time) also. It was very similar to what WOSM troops have done, also in collaboration with Scouts Ukraine. I suspect I'm not the only one to whom the line here is clear - but does anyone understand from personal experience why the interviewed mom doesn't see it as far as the scouting movement goes? Selling items that express personal support on behalf of the wearer for a side in an armed conflict is just so obviously not something scouts should be involved in to me that I'm a bit shocked. Is it a lack of understanding the civil nature of the movement? Is it community grief? That feeling of being viewed with suspicion obscuring the distinction between a civil and a political organization? Any Muslim and/or Palestinian scouters here who could offer their perspective? Edited February 24 by AwakeEnergyScouter Link to post Share on other sites
skeptic 997 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 While the political issue is real, and BSA also does not allow politically related actions, the idea is worthwhile from the young people's perspective. My issue here is the apparent nastiness of the Girl Scouts, though we may not be seeing the whole picture. On the other hand, based on some of their verbiage in relation to girls being allowed in BSA and similar confrontations, thye are not known for being diplomatic. At least not from my observations. Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 It does seem a little harsh to threaten immediate legal action, but I understand it better in this case than in suing the BSA over giving girls the option to scout there as well. GSUSA seemingly, if not actually, getting sucked into the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as taking a side could set a whole chain of destructive reactions into motion and tarnished the reputation of the scouting movement as a whole. The same political tensions that are bouncing around politicians (can't please both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian constituents) would follow into scouting, and promptly create a rift between troops. In my mind, there is a very clear line between building strong civil institutions and/or providing humanitarian assistance in an emergency directly and working for a specific outcome or in support of a particular person, party, or nation in a political situation. (I e had they fundraised for Palestinian scouts doing humanitarian work in Gaza, that would be akin to the WAGGGS and WOSM troops that supported Ukrainian scouts, especially within the exception to the political activity rule.) The scouts were even told they could keep selling the bracelets to fundraise for the Palestinian charity, just not in their capacity as scouts. I think we all engage in some kind of political activity at some point, just expressing our political thoughts if nothing else, just not as scouts or scouters. Our ability to Build(ing) a Better World hinges upon that we are able to work together amongst ourselves with all other scouts. If we can't voluntarily suspend our political expressions while representing scouting, that's going to be almost impossible. Selling bracelets that express support for a political cause as a scout is different from selling bracelets that express support for a particular political cause as a private citizen who also happens to be a scout. The whole idea of a worldwide siblinghood of scouts falls apart if politics dictates whom we're willing to work with. We don't have to love each other equally, but taking political action against each other as scouts is going to splinter the movement. Certainly, the scouts can and should be politically active and use their voices. That's the stuff democracy and strong political institutions are built of. But such political activity can't be using scouting logos, uniforms, or anything else that suggests doing it as a scout. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HashTagScouts 437 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said: Nawal Abuhamdeh said her daughter's troop decided to make bracelets and donate the money rather than participate in the annual cookie sale. I'm sure this is the part that got the GSUSA council upset. They profit from the cookie sales- they don't profit from the bracelet sale. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 732 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 12 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said: A spokesperson for Girl Scouts of the USA said that its policies state that Girl Scouts and volunteers are not allowed to fundraise "for purposes other than Girl Scouting." Sounds clear to me. But in all fairness, BSA has similar fundraising rules. The name and trademarks of the BSA is not to be used in fundraising for other organizations, regardless of how righteous the cause. Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 13 minutes ago, scoutldr said: The name and trademarks of the BSA is not to be used in fundraising for other organizations, regardless of how righteous the cause. Yeah, exactly. And it's for good reasons. It's not greed, actually. If scouts, like civil servants, weren't allowed to engage in political actions even as private citizens (not using any scouting logos, not in uniform, etc) then that would undercut the movement's goals, and the mom's frustration would make total sense. But that's not the case. The problem isn't fundraising for a cause that isn't scouts, the problem is associating the movement with political causes. Like you say, which cause doesn't really matter, but IMO it's worse when the cause is very divisive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DuctTape 1231 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 The article stated the restriction on fundraising was lifted for a short period of time late 23-early 24, but it doesn't say when these kids were doing their fundraiser and whether it fell within that window. I would think this detail would be relevant. Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 I read the article to mean that it was outside that window, but you're right, it doesn't explicitly say so. Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) On 2/24/2024 at 8:17 AM, scoutldr said: Sounds clear to me. But in all fairness, BSA has similar fundraising rules. The name and trademarks of the BSA is not to be used in fundraising for other organizations, regardless of how righteous the cause. Except for Eagle Scout Service Projects? Or a council selling FAKs for Ukraine? (and keeping a slice of the pie, btw) https://padutchbsa.org/a-scout-is-helpful-ukraine-first-aid-kit/ Edited February 25 by InquisitiveScouter Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Except for Eagle Scout Service Projects? Or a council selling FAKs for Ukraine? (and keeping a slice of the pie, btw) https://padutchbsa.org/a-scout-is-helpful-ukraine-first-aid-kit/ This is a lot closer to the line, and as such interesting to consider. My feeling is that supporting other scouts is always ok - so fundraising for an Eagle Scout project is ok because it's generally recognized not just as a good turn but a development exercise for the scout. Compared to the bracelets, certainly Eagle projects deliberately stretch scouts' abilities in a way making bracelets doesn't. The first aid kits seem much closer to that line - and might be over it. I don't think so but I could probably be convinced otherwise without too much trouble, particularly because the council is keeping some of the money. The mitigating circumstances for first-aid kits compared to bracelets with the name of a party in an armed conflict is that the first aid kits don't take any sides in a war the way the bracelets did. If the scheme had been to sell t-shirts that say "Ukraine" and have blue and yellow on them to raise money for first aid kits, that would be the same problem as the Palestine bracelets. It's not just that you're raising money for non-scouting, it's also what you're selling to do so. Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 19 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said: n armed conflict is that the first aid kits don't take any sides in a war the way the bracelets did. Sure they do, if the council sticks Ukrainian flag on it. Do not get me wrong... I personally fully support Ukraine, and kicking out the Russian invaders, but this smacks of "taking sides" by the council that did this. I know there are refugees from the conflict who are Russians as well. They need humanitarian aid and first aid kits, too. I think in the case cited, making a bracelet that advocated peace between the sides would have been a much better choice. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1598608568/peace-in-gaza-bracelet-50-of-profits?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=israel+palestine+peace+flag&ref=sr_gallery-1-4&sts=1&organic_search_click=1 Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Sure they do, if the council sticks Ukrainian flag on it. Do not get me wrong... I personally fully support Ukraine, and kicking out the Russian invaders, but this smacks of "taking sides" by the council that did this. I know there are refugees from the conflict who are Russians as well. They need humanitarian aid and first aid kits, too. I think in the case cited, making a bracelet that advocated peace between the sides would have been a much better choice. It does feel a little sides-taking. I still think it's better than 'Palestine' bracelets, but absolutely better than the 'Palestine' bracelets in the show of support to wear category is something like those peace bracelets you linked. But in both cases, I don't understand why they didn't go the support scouts in the conflict zone that are already on the ground delivering humanitarian aid route. Clean, simple, loyal. It's probably not hard to guess based on general information about me how I feel about the full-scale invasion. But just because it's easy to guess who I'm hoping will win, and most of us here probably think the same thing, doesn't mean that I should voice that opinion in my role as a scouter. 😳 Maybe especially when that opinion is backed by a lot of emotion and a feeling of having a stake in the outcome. I know what I say won't be even remotely neutral. So I try to avoid the topic in order not to embarrass myself with a tirade I shouldn't be delivering. Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 8 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said: doesn't mean that I should voice that opinion in my role as a scouter. 8 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said: opinion is backed by a lot of emotion and a feeling of having a stake in the outcome. 8 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said: So I try to avoid the topic in order not to embarrass myself with a tirade I shouldn't be delivering. Sorry, not taking the bait 😜 Have a nice day. Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 5 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Sorry, not taking the bait 😜 Have a nice day. Apologies, it wasn't my intention to bait. Perhaps I wasn't clear. I meant that in order to stay on the civic side of the line, we all have to self-monitor, which the GSUSA scouter may have failed to do. Political issues one is very touched by are ones one might have to consciously stay far away from the line on. For Palestinians, the Gaza situation is going to be very "hot" for natural reasons. Not a problem per se. But that means needing to figure out how to not let the fire burn when in the role of scouter. Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3680 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) Feb 28,2024: Washington Post provides a good summary: Troop splits with Girl Scouts after legal threats over Gaza bracelet fundraiser https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/02/28/girl-scouts-gaza-bracelets-missouri/ Edited March 1 by RememberSchiff 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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