Alec27 2 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Hello All, and Happy New Year ! I'm trying to find something specific that I'm hoping is out there somewhere. A BSA official something that speaks on the issue of teaching style or approach or guide to how to work with our scouts. I have a new ASM that transferred to us that is one of these authoritarian, hard-a$$, "didn't' make it in the military so now I'll treat scouting as such" type of dudes. He's rude to my boys, condescending and the preverbial straw was at last meeting when he was so A-hole to my SPL that the kid threw a wrench, said "F-this and left the meeting". Gentlemen that's a bridge too far. The problem is that I can't just tell him that he's wrong, I need to show him concrete proof that "THIS is how we do it", etc. "This is the BSA way", etc. I know that Wood Badge has a huge focus on this type of topic, but is Wood Badge teaching materials something that I'd even be able to get access to ? I appreciate your help, guys and I'm sorry to vent, but this type of ego power trip BS really bothers me. Especially when we're dealing with children. Hope all is well with everyone. Talk Soon. Alec Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 732 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Your Council Training Committee should be offering the BSA "Train the Trainer" course....however...I doubt that showing him some BSA publication or attending a 1 day training course is going to change anyone's personality. I have dealt with these authoritarian types before. The best thing to do is isolate him from direct contact before you get a YP complaint lodged with Council. If he refuses, dismiss him from membership. THis is something that only the CO/COR can do, but you can recommend it to the Committee. You and the Committee need to act promptly or else your troop will not survive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1616 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Take the high road here. Does he have a youth in the Troop? What is his "connection"? Did he become ASM in your Troop, or another ("transferred to us" ?) ? A definite sit down and adult talk to is in order. Say , two or three other adult Scouters corral him and tell him what you have seen, what has happened and what MIGHT happen if he doesn't change his ways. DO this with FRIENDLY witnesses. Scouting is not Marine Boot Camp, it ain't Heartbreak Ridge. Remind him of OUR ideals, Kind, Obedient, Friendly, etc.... Yes, Baden-Powell was a soldier, yes, he did seek to improve the male youth he saw coming into his army units, but he recognized the need for Scouting to be FUN WITH A PURPOSE> If it ain't fun, no boy is going to stick around to absorb the purpose. As a last resort, see above for choice "B", COR removes him. Sorry for the lose of his son/daughter Scout, but eventually that youth will figure things out, rest assured, and the dad will lose that battle, believe me... See you on the trail. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) If it helps, here is a historian to point him to to back up what SSScout said. https://www.jstor.org/stable/572005 https://www.jstor.org/stable/572003 These are publicly available previews of an argument among historians about us and BP. As a scout yourself, you'll know who's right. Thank you for protecting your scouts and the movement as a whole. Edited January 15 by AwakeEnergyScouter Link to post Share on other sites
skeptic 997 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Anyone caring to dig a bit, and have an open mind to look beyond the surface can discover indicators that BP's early efforts were more military focussed, but fairly soon changed to working to guide the youth of the time to be better citizens. Similarly, a close look at the BSA in the teens into the run up to WWII certainly show a similar emphasis, though obviously colored by the period in history. The serious and willing historians for the the program seem to have evolved to the concept of citizenship and responsibility and away from the direct military focus of some of the earliest knockoffs. Lost to many is the societal respect of Scouting, especially in BSA in the first half century or so. Chivalry and simple respect somehow fell by the wayside for some reason in many places, and the foolish "insult" of calling someone "such a Boy Scout" gained traction for some reason over time, and the concepts that are the foundation of Scouting fell into limbo of some type. Yet who, with any basic concern for others and our society could seriously say the tenets of Scouting are somehow bad? If just the Oath and Law were seen as important in broader society, we would have far fewer issues. JMHO of course, and I will be 80 soon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SiouxRanger 491 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 20 minutes ago, skeptic said: Lost to many is the societal respect of Scouting, especially in BSA in the first half century or so. Chivalry and simple respect somehow fell by the wayside for some reason in many places, and the foolish "insult" of calling someone "such a Boy Scout" gained traction for some reason over time, and the concepts that are the foundation of Scouting fell into limbo of some type. Yet who, with any basic concern for others and our society could seriously say the tenets of Scouting are somehow bad? If just the Oath and Law were seen as important in broader society, we would have far fewer issues. JMHO of course, and I will be 80 soon. Absolutely. I'm just a kid at 70, but you are absolutely right. The principles of Scouting have been no hindrance but only benefit in my life. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SiouxRanger 491 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I think that there is some reference in the congressional charter prohibiting military marching, or some such. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AltadenaCraig 111 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 More often than not it's worthwhile to seek the guidance of the man, himself, Robert Baden-Powell (it's surprising how much of his insight remains relevant - it's timeless). Here are a few of his thoughts regarding "Drill" in "Aids to Scoutmastership": Quote One hears a great many people advocating drill as the way to bring about better physical development among boys. I have had a good deal to do with drilling in my time, and if people think they are going to develop a boy’s physical strength and set-up by drilling him for an hour a week, they will meet with disappointing results. ... As regards drill for Scouts, I have frequently had to remind Scoutmasters that it is to be avoided — that is, in excess. Apart from militarist objections on the part of some parents, one is averse to it because a second-rate Scoutmaster cannot see the higher aim of Scouting (namely, drawing out of the individual), and not having the originality to teach it even if he saw it, he reverts to drill as an easy means of getting his boys into some sort of shape for making a show on parade. Note the term "in excess". Baden-Powell suggests "a few minutes silent drill at the beginning of a meeting or an occasional game of "O'Grady [Simon] says." "Silent drill" being as simple as falling-in for opening ceremony, attendance, or uniform inspection. To be sure, while he felt "Occasional drills are necessary", he was quick to add "but these should not be indulged in at the expense of the more valuable Scout training." Moreover, he always preferred scouts teaching themselves as "drill is all a matter of instruction, of hammering it into the boys, and is in no way an education where they learn it for themselves" and preferred scout skills being emphasized over drill. Here's his full explanation: Quote All the drill we require in Scouting to set our boys up, and get them to move like men and not sheep, is a few minutes silent drill at the beginning of a meeting or an occasional game of “O’Grady says.” Although we do not want to neglect drill altogether, far preferable is the drill in firemanship, trek cart, lifeboat launch- ing, bridge building, and other sets of exercises. These demand equal smartness, activity, and discipline, but the point is that each boy is using his head in doing his own particular share of the work for the success of the whole team. Moreover, competitions in these are of highest interest to the boys as well as to the onlookers. An ulterior point is that they can breed morale and fair play. Hope this is helpful. Link to post Share on other sites
skeptic 997 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Just about my favorite poem. It, along with Crossing the Bar more and more come to mind for some reason. Both of course relate to getting old and entering that unknown. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Alec27 2 Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 On 1/14/2024 at 2:46 PM, SSScout said: Take the high road here. Does he have a youth in the Troop? What is his "connection"? Did he become ASM in your Troop, or another ("transferred to us" ?) ? A definite sit down and adult talk to is in order. Say , two or three other adult Scouters corral him and tell him what you have seen, what has happened and what MIGHT happen if he doesn't change his ways. DO this with FRIENDLY witnesses. Scouting is not Marine Boot Camp, it ain't Heartbreak Ridge. Remind him of OUR ideals, Kind, Obedient, Friendly, etc.... Yes, Baden-Powell was a soldier, yes, he did seek to improve the male youth he saw coming into his army units, but he recognized the need for Scouting to be FUN WITH A PURPOSE> If it ain't fun, no boy is going to stick around to absorb the purpose. As a last resort, see above for choice "B", COR removes him. Sorry for the lose of his son/daughter Scout, but eventually that youth will figure things out, rest assured, and the dad will lose that battle, believe me... See you on the trail. SS Thank you so much ! Not just for the advice, but for the confirmation of the situation and you are 100% right. Link to post Share on other sites
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