Summer Camp observations - New Scouts and Troop sizes

[Jameson76 1485]

Returned from camp on Saturday, just some observations on new scouts and troop sizes

The camp we attend has about 1,000 campers per week (+/-).  This is week 2 for them.  They have had roughly that number for the last 15 years or so that I have attended there with the troop.  Some observations.

1) New Scouts - Typically new Scouts made up roughly 25% - 30% of the attendees.  This year it was about 15%.  Mainly this is due to Covid we presume and the decimation of the packs in 2020 and 2021.  Possibly this will improve, but it did have an impact

2) Troop size - In the past to have 1,000 Scouts there were usually about 38 - 40 troops in camp, average of maybe 26 Scouts per troop.  This year there were 56 troop is camp.  That is an average of 18 Scouts per troop.  A drop of 30% in size to camp.

Obviously this is anecdotal and one snippet of data, but it is interesting.  The camp ran well, Scouts had a great time, much fun was had by all.  

 

[RememberSchiff 3683]

34 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Returned from camp on Saturday, just some observations on new scouts and troop sizes

The camp we attend has about 1,000 campers per week (+/-).  This is week 2 for them.  They have had roughly that number for the last 15 years or so that I have attended there with the troop.  Some observations.

1) New Scouts - Typically new Scouts made up roughly 25% - 30% of the attendees.  This year it was about 15%.  Mainly this is due to Covid we presume and the decimation of the packs in 2020 and 2021.  Possibly this will improve, but it did have an impact

2) Troop size - In the past to have 1,000 Scouts there were usually about 38 - 40 troops in camp, average of maybe 26 Scouts per troop.  This year there were 56 troop is camp.  That is an average of 18 Scouts per troop.  A drop of 30% in size to camp.

Obviously this is anecdotal and one snippet of data, but it is interesting.  The camp ran well, Scouts had a great time, much fun was had by all.  

 

How much did a week cost for scouts?

A previous minimum of 80 (40x2) adult leaders to now a minimum of 112 (56x2) adult leaders for the week? Sizable increase in adults.

[Jameson76 1485]

2 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

How much did a week cost for scouts?

A previous minimum of 80 (40x2) adult leaders to now a minimum of 112 (56x2) adult leaders for the week? Sizable increase in adults.

Camp is $380 per Scout.  This includes 1 off site per scout for horseback ride or river rafting

• Less than 5 Scouts - no free leaders
• At least 5 Scouts - 2 free leaders
• 25 to 34 Scouts - 3 free leaders
• 35 to 44 Scouts - 4 free leaders
• 45 to 54 Scouts - 5 free leaders
• 55 to 64 Scouts - 6 free leaders
• 65 to 74 Scouts - 7 free leaders
• 75 or more Scout - 8 free leaders

Leaders cost $200 per week if not free

 

[Eagle1993 2161]

My camp appears to have less attendees than previous years.  Bad news as one of the bigger camps in the state closed, so attedance should be up.

1,749 total scouts & adults are registered over 6 weeks of camp, averaging 292 per week with 130 Troops (average 13.5 scouts/adults per Troop)

Pareto of Troop size (including adults) below.  Just 22% of Troops are at least 20 scouts & adults

 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Don't forget you cna have out of council and out of state troops. Mine is going out of state, 2 adults' 6 Scouts.

[Jameson76 1485]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Don't forget you cna have out of council and out of state troops. Mine is going out of state, 2 adults' 6 Scouts.

Correct - For the week we attended, 41% of units were from out of council / out of state

[MattR 2659]

We just ran our own summer camp and the scouts really enjoyed it. The reason we did it was the local camp was $450 for the week and we could do that for a quarter of the cost. We also focused on the doing part of MBs, there were no discussion reqs covered. We got on the bikes or canoes and rode or paddled. The scouts enjoyed cooking the food and the schedule was made up on the spot, depending on the weather.

The scouts said they'd like to alternate this with another camp we go to that's a bit of a drive but well run and still reasonably priced.

We're lucky in that we have adults with skills.

[DannyG 69]

Regarding new scouts: I bridged up last year from Cub Scouts with my son. We started Cub Scouts in 2017 and continued through the COVID years. Enrollment was way down in 2020-2021 during the height of pandemic. New recruitment was practically zero. We also lost Cub Scouts that dropped enrollment during the pandemic. So keep in mind new scouts at summer camp this year may have started as Lions/Tigers, missed a year or two, then picked it up again as Webelos.  A lot of them are having trouble adjusting to the older program. Some families feel they aren't ready to spend an entire week in the wilderness with a troop. It's a big investment they aren't ready to make. We started three new dens with brand new scouts in fall 2021 - Lions, Tigers, and Wolves. The oldest are now Webelos, so they will be new Scouts BSA at summer camp next year. By Webelos the families are usually ready to run the Pack, but the new ones are just beginning to reach their midpoint in Cubs. So I have realized there is a big hole in the Cub Scouts program working its way through. It will peak with next year's bridging BSA scouts, then start to improve after that.

[AwakeEnergyScouter 247]

Our pack saw something similar. We ourselves didn't join as Lions because of the pandemic (wanted to save risk pool entirely for in-person school and select acquaintance visits), and only joined half-way through Tiger year. The pack was small then, but during the Wolf year the den doubled in size. Lots of scouts who left during the pandemic never got back to it, and while more are joining now, there were few Webelos and Bears when my child was a Wolf. Webelos still thin, actually. Luckily, we had the adults to stay active even with few scouts, so we have something to offer new scouts.

[SSScout 1616]

This memory certainly won't apply to most , but here goes. 

 I had a unique Scout time, unique families, unique dads and moms, I guess....

As a new Tendefoot, I didn't know any better, but looking back....

Somebody's uncle/grandfather (who knows now) had some wooded property. We camped there regularly. It had a spring for good water that we capped with a big concrete pipe. Idea ! Let's have our own summer camp !  With the cooperation of a  dad who worked for the phone company, we got several creosoted telephone poles, drug 'em in with a Jeep and tractor, cut them up, built a three sided Adirondack cabin into the hillside. This became the Quatermaster cabin.  Cleared some areas on both side of the creek for Patrol Campsites. Dragged, carried in picknick table parts, built tables at the sites.  Suitable trees and poles and tarps, we had dining areas.  Stones out of the creek, campfire areas and grills for cooking.  American Chestnut down and dead, best firewood in the world, burned with a blue flame. Other "ordinary" wood for "campfire " in the evenings. "Baker" style tents, standard, but each Scout bought their own.  Dammed up the creek for a "swimming " (wading) hole.  Scouting Skills taught and learned . Meals cooked over wood coals, some of us were better cooks than others, some of us washed dishes better than others....  We did summer camp there " 759 Camp Freedom" , for a week for several years of my Scout career, and I went off to other summer camps, for comparison, I guess.  Each better or not so in some respects, but I do remember helping to build that camp.  Came back to it many years later, the cabin had all but returned to the earth, the capped spring had been dug out (county ordinance, I guess. It had been bought and , at least in part, turned into a religious retreat center.... 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

19 hours ago, SSScout said:

This memory certainly won't apply to most , but here goes. 

 I had a unique Scout time, unique families, unique dads and moms, I guess....

As a new Tendefoot, I didn't know any better, but looking back....

Somebody's uncle/grandfather (who knows now) had some wooded property. We camped there regularly. It had a spring for good water that we capped with a big concrete pipe. Idea ! Let's have our own summer camp !  With the cooperation of a  dad who worked for the phone company, we got several creosoted telephone poles, drug 'em in with a Jeep and tractor, cut them up, built a three sided Adirondack cabin into the hillside. This became the Quatermaster cabin.  Cleared some areas on both side of the creek for Patrol Campsites. Dragged, carried in picknick table parts, built tables at the sites.  Suitable trees and poles and tarps, we had dining areas.  Stones out of the creek, campfire areas and grills for cooking.  American Chestnut down and dead, best firewood in the world, burned with a blue flame. Other "ordinary" wood for "campfire " in the evenings. "Baker" style tents, standard, but each Scout bought their own.  Dammed up the creek for a "swimming " (wading) hole.  Scouting Skills taught and learned . Meals cooked over wood coals, some of us were better cooks than others, some of us washed dishes better than others....  We did summer camp there " 759 Camp Freedom" , for a week for several years of my Scout career, and I went off to other summer camps, for comparison, I guess.  Each better or not so in some respects, but I do remember helping to build that camp.  Came back to it many years later, the cabin had all but returned to the earth, the capped spring had been dug out (county ordinance, I guess. It had been bought and , at least in part, turned into a religious retreat center.... 

Sadly to many Adults and Scouts see summer camp as summer school. We did something very similar in 2020 when covid shut down camps.. While the Scouts had fun and enjoyed themselves,  when offered to do it again, they declined because they want those MBs. And one of my adults said doing your own camp is a waste of time because you are missing out on MBs.

But I have some good memories, and so do the Scouts.

[SSScout 1616]

20 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Sadly to many Adults and Scouts see summer camp as summer school. We did something very similar in 2020 when covid shut down camps.. While the Scouts had fun and enjoyed themselves,  when offered to do it again, they declined because they want those MBs. And one of my adults said doing your own camp is a waste of time because you are missing out on MBs.

But I have some good memories, and so do the Scouts.

Oh, MBs ! Our DiY camp included them, too. I remember Nature, Astronomy and Camping and Pioneering.  As an adult Scouter now, I can now come to realize and appreciate the effort that went into such an event. Scout Led, for sure, but the adults set up the OPPORTUNITY for that leading....

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

We started work on MBs: cycling, canoeing, wilderness survival, cooking, etc. But the focus was more on activities and fun, especially with COVID. And the Scouts were told in advance what they could earn if they did ALL (emphasis) the work. For cooking, bulk used it for cooking rank requirements, and we had 3 BORs on Thursday night as a result.

This is where I did too much.🤨 I did all the activity  planning for the camp, brought it to the PLC, and let them add or subtract to it. I also made the schedule flexible enough in that if they needed to change things around, it could be done. Only schedule items I was adamant on was 1) Board of Reviews starting at 6:30 Thursday night because the committee was visiting and we needed to respect their time and 2. We WILL be stopping at an ice cream shop after the first bike trek. : )  They had no problems with that at all. 🤣

[AwakeEnergyScouter 247]

This sounds super helpful! How wonderful that you did this!

Even if you did a tad too much. It's a situation read and it's not easy to see what the exact right level of challenge for someone is. Catching yourself is the steppingstone to improving anyway! 👏

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

1 hour ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

This sounds super helpful! How wonderful that you did this!

Even if you did a tad too much. It's a situation read and it's not easy to see what the exact right level of challenge for someone is. Catching yourself is the steppingstone to improving anyway! 👏

I worked a summer in Europe, and the focus there is fun and adventure, not advancement. We had 8 weeks to plan, and those troops take anywhere from 6 to 12 months to plan their summer camps, and they go all out. I personally prefer their way of doing things because it is patrol and troop focused, not MB and advancement focused. I basically used ideas I saw them do: Bike trip = Belgians, Canoes = English, Wilderness Survival = Germans, Feast and BORs =  Scots.

I would love for the troop to do this again, but they want MBs.