Scouter Awards

[DannyG 69]

I come from a similar Pack where the focus was awarding scouts for their own achievements. Adult awards were not really considered. 

Many of the leaders I know wear knots for awards they completed as youth:  Arrow of Light, Eagle, Youth Religious emblem, etc.  A few years ago some of the square knot awards were combined. For instance, in the past you could earn different knots for Tiger, Cub Scouts, and Webelos den leader. Today it is combined into one den leader award, even if you are awarded it each year for each den. There are old-timers in my unit covered in square knots that no longer exist.  Some of them have more than the 9 knots max you can wear on the uniform. I feel like newer adult leaders won't have as many chances to earn 9 knots. 

[5thGenTexan 504]

On 3/11/2023 at 8:07 PM, SPG said:

I have been to several Eagle COHs at our troop and others and one thing that I have seen done at others but not ours is the distribution of Eagle Mentor pins. I am not sure why the scouts from our troop did not hand them out (i.e. oversight or if its just not a priority for our troop).  I personally plan to change that.  I think those pins would be much more meaningful to our adults than a knot.

Most of our adults are happy flying under the radar. I personally don't have any either.  I am pretty sure I got AOL but I honestly cannot remember and since that is the one award that national does not track, I can't check. I would rather have earned it and not wear it than wear it without having earned it.  I did stay in scouts until the Blue and Gold but our den leader was very strict and I could have easily been denied because of something silly.  And like most adults, I never bothered applying for any awards. However, our committee would like our adults to get awards to set an example for the scouts.  I can respect that.

I know I earned Arrow of Light because I have a letter on Council letterhead from a Council employee.  It congratulated me... now the best part.  The guy gave me his phone number with an open invitation to call if I ever needed help or had any questions.  Totally would not fly now.

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

1 hour ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Totally would not fly now.

Why not?  Written correspondence is just fine

 

[SPG 3]

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Oh, god. Non-uniform wear means not to be worn on the uniform. 

If you can provide a reference to BSA documentation supporting this definition, then I will gladly pass it on to the leaders in our unit. However, I will refrain from enforcing any such a rule as I believe that would go against the intent of the uniform. Per the insignia guide, the uniform is intended to be a medium to display "what each youth or adult member has accomplished with program opportunities...".  I fully encourage scouts/leaders to wear a complete uniform, but I would much rather a scout/scouter wear a 90% correct unform than get hung up on such details and discourage them in the process. I tend to apply Mark's statement that "No Scout is turned away or publicly admonished because he or she isn’t wearing the right thing."

Without evidence to the contrary, I assume the term "non-uniform wear" allows such pin/awards be worn without a uniform, essentially overriding the following rule. "It is the responsibility of all leaders of the Boy Scouts of America and especially of all commissioned officers and chartered councils to cooperate with the Boy Scouts of America in preventing the use of the official uniforms by those who are not registered and in good standing."

Finally, there are a number of items that are allowed to be worn on the uniform that are not explicitly approved in the insignia guide. I see no difference with the mentor pins.  Here are just a few examples:

• Wood Badge beads. They are explicitly allowed to be worn on the Sea Scout Uniform (which is typically cleaner than other uniforms) but no mention is made of them for other uniforms.
• Belt fob and camping beads. These are sold by the scout shop and are worn by many troops but are not mentioned anywhere in the insignia guide. 
• Several lodges have pocket patch sets that cover the entire pocket instead of just the pocket flap (as approved by insignia guide).
• The insignia guide outlines that "all members" are to wear nameplates with white text on black plastic. No other reference to nameplates or nametags is made. However, commissioners wear red nameplates, the scout shop also sells leather nametags, and many wood badgers I know wear wooden laser cut nametags.  Not to mention the countless scouts/leaders that do not wear nameplates.

In summary, a lot is left up to interpretation. I have no issue if someone wears something that they earned and supports scouting ideals.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by SPG

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

21 minutes ago, SPG said:

If you can provide a reference to BSA documentation supporting this definition, then I will gladly pass it on to the leaders in our unit. However, I will refrain from enforcing any such a rule as I believe that would go against the intent of the uniform. Per the insignia guide, the uniform is intended to be a medium to display "what each youth or adult member has accomplished with program opportunities...".  I fully encourage scouts/leaders to wear a complete uniform, but I would much rather a scout/scouter wear a 90% correct unform than get hung up on such details and discourage them in the process. I tend to apply Mark's statement that "No Scout is turned away or publicly admonished because he or she isn’t wearing the right thing."

Without evidence to the contrary, I assume the term "non-uniform wear" allows such pin/awards be worn without a uniform, essentially overriding the following rule. "It is the responsibility of all leaders of the Boy Scouts of America and especially of all commissioned officers and chartered councils to cooperate with the Boy Scouts of America in preventing the use of the official uniforms by those who are not registered and in good standing."

Finally, there are a number of items that are allowed to be worn on the uniform that are not explicitly approved in the insignia guide. I see no difference with the mentor pins.  Here are just a few examples:

• Wood Badge beads. They are explicitly allowed to be worn on the Sea Scout Uniform (which is typically cleaner than other uniforms) but no mention is made of them for other uniforms.
• Belt fob and camping beads. These are sold by the scout shop and are worn by many troops but are not mentioned anywhere in the insignia guide. 
• Several lodges have pocket patch sets that cover the entire pocket instead of just the pocket flap (as approved by insignia guide).
• The insignia guide outlines that "all members" are to wear nameplates with white text on black plastic. No other reference to nameplates or nametags is made. However, commissioners wear red nameplates, the scout shop also sells leather nametags, and many wood badgers I know wear wooden laser cut nametags.  Not to mention the countless scouts/leaders that do not wear nameplates.

In summary, a lot is left up to interpretation. I have no issue if someone wears something that they earned and supports scouting ideals.

 

It is titled the "Guide to Awards and Insignia"

IMO, anything that is a "Guide" takes a far back seat to common sense and judgement...  ("Guide" to Safe Scouting anyone??)

Here're some other examples...

1.  Velcro... I put velcro on my uniform to be able to change patches when desired (like the yearly JTE, or the temp patch on the pocket, or the leadership position patch, etc).  But, if you are a uniform martinet the "Guide" says

"No alteration of, or additions to, the official uniforms, as described in the official guidelines or the Rules and Regulations covering the wearing of the uniform and the proper combinations thereof on official occasions, may be authorized by any Scouting official or local council."

and that would strictly be verboten...

2.  Wood Badge beads & woggle...  Our PLC has selected a specific neckerchief for our Troop.  Our unit leaders wear the same neckerchief as our youth when we are doing unit events.  I wear my WB beads and woggle with my Troop neckerchief.  Boy, you wouldn't believe how many people this has riled up...

3.  OA Sash & ribbon without a flap...  I wear my OA sash to OA themed events, without a lodge flap.  I also wear my Vigil pin on the OA Pocket Device almost all the time, with no flap.  Again, people have tried to "correct" me on this (even on this forum).  I just smile and say "Thanks"

https://www.scoutshop.org/oa-pocket-device-604942.html

https://www.scoutshop.org/oa-vigil-of-honor-pin-604944.html

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[HashTagScouts 437]

44 minutes ago, SPG said:

If you can provide a reference to BSA documentation supporting this definition, then I will gladly pass it on to the leaders in our unit. However, I will refrain from enforcing any such a rule as I believe that would go against the intent of the uniform. Per the insignia guide, the uniform is intended to be a medium to display "what each youth or adult member has accomplished with program opportunities...".  I fully encourage scouts/leaders to wear a complete uniform, but I would much rather a scout/scouter wear a 90% correct unform than get hung up on such details and discourage them in the process. I tend to apply Mark's statement that "No Scout is turned away or publicly admonished because he or she isn’t wearing the right thing."

Without evidence to the contrary, I assume the term "non-uniform wear" allows such pin/awards be worn without a uniform, essentially overriding the following rule. "It is the responsibility of all leaders of the Boy Scouts of America and especially of all commissioned officers and chartered councils to cooperate with the Boy Scouts of America in preventing the use of the official uniforms by those who are not registered and in good standing."

Finally, there are a number of items that are allowed to be worn on the uniform that are not explicitly approved in the insignia guide. I see no difference with the mentor pins.  Here are just a few examples:

• Wood Badge beads. They are explicitly allowed to be worn on the Sea Scout Uniform (which is typically cleaner than other uniforms) but no mention is made of them for other uniforms.
• Belt fob and camping beads. These are sold by the scout shop and are worn by many troops but are not mentioned anywhere in the insignia guide. 
• Several lodges have pocket patch sets that cover the entire pocket instead of just the pocket flap (as approved by insignia guide).
• The insignia guide outlines that "all members" are to wear nameplates with white text on black plastic. No other reference to nameplates or nametags is made. However, commissioners wear red nameplates, the scout shop also sells leather nametags, and many wood badgers I know wear wooden laser cut nametags.  Not to mention the countless scouts/leaders that do not wear nameplates.

In summary, a lot is left up to interpretation. I have no issue if someone wears something that they earned and supports scouting ideals.

 

I know an Eagle coach who's been at that role for nearly two decades. He has received numerous mentor pins over the years, but only wears a single one on his uniform. I wear my father's pin on my uniform, and I'd sooner quit than be told I have to take that off. At the end of the day, my feeling is if we're focusing on pins or knots on uniforms, then we must have absolutely nothing else wrong with our organization or units that could better use our attention.

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

11 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

At the end of the day, my feeling is if we're focusing on pins or knots on uniforms, then we must have absolutely nothing else wrong with our organization or units that could better use our attention.

Straining at a gnat, and swallowing a camel??  Love you, man... come be a part of our Troop!

Edited March 13, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[mrjohns2 582]

1 hour ago, SPG said:

If you can provide a reference to BSA documentation supporting this definition, then I will gladly pass it on to the leaders in our unit.

If you want to be ignorant, feel free to carry on as I can’t argue with chosen ignorance.

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

3 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

If you want to be ignorant, feel free to carry on as I can’t argue with chosen ignorance.

He is asking for you to educate him out of any potential ignorance...

That is not "chosen ignorance"!!

C'mon man!! A Scout is Kind!! 

Edited March 13, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[mrjohns2 582]

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

He is asking for you to educate him out of any potential ignorance

Non-uniform wear. Done. Period. 
 

A Scout is also obedient and trustworthy. Not following the uniform standards is neither. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by mrjohns2

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

4 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

If you want to be ignorant, feel free to carry on as I can’t argue with chosen ignorance.

   Really, @mrjohns2???  

 

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

1 minute ago, mrjohns2 said:

Non-uniform wear. Done. Period. 
 

A Scout is also obedient and trustworthy. Not following the uniform standards is neither. 

Wanna send a picture of your uniform, and I'll tell you if you are in "standards"???

[mrjohns2 582]

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Wanna send a picture of your uniform, and I'll tell you if you are in "standards"???

Ok! I’ll try to remember tonight. I’d love the feedback. I truly try to live in a robust glass house with my uniform.  

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

2 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Ok! I’ll try to remember tonight. I’d love the feedback. I truly try to live in a robust glass house with my uniform.  

Bring it

With sleeves, too, please.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[mrjohns2 582]

6 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

With sleeves, too, please.

Yes, sir.