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Boys-only weeks at camp


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3 hours ago, mashmaster said:

… Regarding the bathrooms, most camps I have gone to in the last five years have been converting to the single stall approach with a sink/toilet/shower all in one locking room.  It works for any gender or age.  Personally I am a big fan of these because they just work.  …

Savvy predators like them too … it reduces the number of eyes that may spot the hidden cameras.

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Only for the perpetual victimization crowd.  The message it sends otherwise is: - Different people value different things.  Some scouts value an all-male experience.  It's diversity that makes us

I’m not involved in GSUSA, and this thread isn’t in the GSUSA forum. I don’t concern myself with how they run that program. They made a decision that’s best for their organization, and that’s their bu

Well, let's start from the bottom up. The BSA didn't create a unified program at the Scout BSA level, they created a gender-segregated program.  It's no secret I don't agree with the decision to

Sadly, these types of considerations now become part of the "routine" of making camp safe, and on our list of things adult volunteers need to be alert to.

So, my council camp has three separate buildings, two shower houses and the pool house.  All are relatively new, perhaps the last 8 to 10 years.  They are built on the single stall model, single stalls for restroom facilities, and single shower stalls.  Each stall locks from the inside.

All stalls open to the OUTSIDE.  In full view of anyone present.

Each building has a central service corridor for mechanicals to service each stall.  Access to that corridor is behind a locked steel set of double doors.  There is NO access to any stall from that corridor, other than the occasional pipe providing water.  All the walls are cinder blocks.

The stall ceilings are solid.  The walls are very plain. Good lighting in every stall.

It would not be easy to install a camera in these particular stalls, and that they are virtually identical, anything different from one stall to the other would stand out (hopefully).

Being on a National Camp Assessment Team, I've toured a number of camps.

It appears to me that it is the older facilities where cameras could be more easily concealed.  Rustic, weathered, 2 x 4 framed stalls, plywood sides, ceilings open to trusses, bird nests, spider webs, no electric lighting, DARK, etc.  A camera could more easily be placed up in the dark area amongst the trusses, perhaps camouflaged in some fashion.

And, one shower house I toured had open ceilings to the trusses, but everything was painted white, including the trusses and underside of the roof sheathing.  Even there, a determined abuser could make a small (tiny?) box painted white and attach it to a rafter with a single screw and escape detection.

My point is that detection of surreptitious camera placement is extremely problematic.

I have not seen any mention of this issue in my National Camp Assessment Team materials.

Something to be added to that.

 

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@SiouxRanger, I agree that bygone bathhouses would not stand a chance against video devices of today. I just don’t know if modern shower houses have provided any long term advantage against determined predators. Good scouters staying educated may be all we can count on.

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41 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@SiouxRanger, I agree that bygone bathhouses would not stand a chance against video devices of today. I just don’t know if modern shower houses have provided any long term advantage against determined predators. Good scouters staying educated may be all we can count on.

Reminds me of one Webelos summer camp in 1993 where a female Webelos leader was asked to leave camp because she walked in the shower area to tell (shouted) her scouts that they were staying in the shower area too long. The whole camp could hear those scouts laughing and joking around. The scouts where in their swimsuits and she was just being a mom walking in the shower area without thinking to tell them to quit messing around and holding up the showers for the rest of the camp. That was when we knew Youth Protection was getting really serious.

Barry

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14 hours ago, qwazse said:

@SiouxRanger, I agree that bygone bathhouses would not stand a chance against video devices of today. I just don’t know if modern shower houses have provided any long term advantage against determined predators. Good scouters staying educated may be all we can count on.

Well, I can speak only for the shower houses and restrooms at my council camp and the separate show and restroom stalls are simply sterile-cinderblock walls to a ceiling.  NO place to mount a camera, even concealed without being obvious to anyone looking for a concealed camera.

That all being said, I do not know if my camp's shower houses and restrooms were built to National standards, or something else. So, perhaps my council camp's buildings are unique.

But I agree, virtually every building is unique, wherever located.

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