BOR's-how to make them meaningful for the scout

[blw2 433]

As some of you know, i'm a fairly new reformed Cub Scouter... haven't been in the troop committee all that long.

 

I was recently blindsided into rounding out a BOR, they needed a 3rd committee member, and I was handy.  

 

I asked a few questions, but let the others do most of the asking... mainly because they were shooting them out quick and beat me to several that i was thinking

 

Anyway, my gut-feel evaluation of the experience:

• It was a decent introductory experience for the scout in preparation for future job interviews and the like... just getting used to being in the spotlight
• Some of it seemed almost more like a drill.  the scout was asked to stand front, repeat the oath, law, etc... and was kept standing the whole time
• most questions lacked much depth for either side.  We weren't asking the scout things to make him think or that would result in his learning or gaining something good..... and for the committee, really doing an evaluation of the health of the program.

 

My ideas:

1. I felt like it could have been perhaps a bit more conversational in a way, ask the scout to sit, etc...
2. and really try to find out if the scout has any good ideas for change, or needs
3. and really find out if the scout knows his stuff... that the program is succeeding and not pencil whipping.

I think doing #1, will fairly easily lead to #2

But #3 is tricky.  The BOR isn't a test.  The scout has already earned rank, so it shouldn't feel like a test in my thinking..

 

So my questions

What are some good canned questions to hold in my back pocket?

How do your BOR differ in a positive way?

[Torchwood 177]

Start here?

 

http://www.macscouter.com/Scoutmaster/BoR_Guide.asp

[Stosh 3452]

Why does one need canned questions?   No two boys are alike, canned questions will result most likely with canned answers.  If one really would like more of a conversational approach to BOR's why is one seeking canned questions? 

 

I've never been anything other than a SM or ASM so I never sit on BOR's.  So I can't help out there.

 

On the other hand my SMC's don't have any canned questions.  So I can't help out there either.

 

If one really wants my advice, start with the premise that this is the BOY'S POR, not some panel of adult's.  Get the ball rolling and let him lead you through the process.  In my SMC's I am prepared to talk about anything the boy brings up as important to him.

 

We all jump through hoops talking about BOR's are a time for adults to find out about how the boy's scouting career is going, what he likes, dislikes, what's wrong with the troop/patrol, what's good about the troop/patrol.  With all the questions, the adults are tossing out there, who's doing the listening?  Hmmmm, if one has a whole series of canned questions, can BOR's fall prey to pencil whipping?

[qwazse 4345]

Drop #3. There is no way, for example, that you can know that a 1st class candidate can still swim 100 yards in a strong manner, or that he can only navigate 4 miles. At the best, you can ask him if there is any skill that he has problems with, then ask him what the troop or his patrol could do to improve everyone's skill in that area.

 

After the boy gives oath and law, we have him take a seat at the table and give us his book. I think your concern about making him stand the whole time is valid.

[Stosh 3452]

My idea of the ideal BOR?

 

Boy walks in, sits down  BOR MEMBERS are sitting in a circle, boy's chair is part of the circle.  One BOR member asks the question, "Well, how's it going?"  The others just listen.  When the boy is done talking, the BOR is over.

[Eagledad 2779]

First, lets remember the purpose of the BOR. It is a quality check on the Scoutmasters program, not the scout. If the scout appears to be unprepared, the SM should be held accountable. A good scoutmaster wants to hear the results to learn of areas that may need attention. I certainly did. 

 

Our troop has been using the guide Torchwood suggested for over 25 years. I works very well because the questions are pretty good for learning if the SM is in fact doing a good job. It also makes it easy for new board members to ask the right questions and eventually get everyone settled and comfortable enough to relax. That is when a member might ask non canned question that is more personal to the scout, like asking a question that gets the scout talking about his family or school experiences.  

 

And really folks, it's not about the questions being asked, it's how the questions are being asked. The board can take on the image of strange adults judging the scouts performance or they can be a group of adults wanting to get to know the scout better through his scouting experience using the exact same questions. 

 

Our board looks very much like stosh describes his ideal board. We use a lot of  canned questions because they help the board and scouts get comfortable quickly. Adults who don't have a lot of experience and don't have a few canned questions tend to either not ask any questions, or ask inappropriate questions. 

 

Everyone of course wants the BOR experience for the Scout to be positive. But we forget that the adults should want the same experience. Nothing is more rewarding than getting to know a scout better.  Our board tries to be warm, encouraging and enthusiastically curious about the scout's experiences in the troop. You know the board is doing well when the adults come out excited from the experience. That is why I like parents being part of the board.

 

We found that our Patrol Leaders and SPL like to introduce the scouts to the board. That wasn't an adult idea, it came from the scouts. Probably an Eagle started that from his EBOR, I don't know. But the scouts sure enjoy it and I like anything that breaks the ice for the BOR candidate. 

 

Our troop has two or three BOR leaders that head the BORs. We like that because typically one of them is with troop where ever it is and can call a BOR board together anytime a scout request. The BOR leader has the canned questions and looks for two other members. They coach the board a little before the scout shows up. It works for our troop and the scouts like it. 

 

One final note, I have always felt that if the troop truly wants to learn about how well the program is doing, the board should also talk to the parents. Oh I know that is logistically challenging, but many boys aren't going to be completely open to a bunch of strange adults. The parents on the other hand might. And, it is an opportunity for the parents to say what is good about the troop. We have never tried it, but I have always wanted to try it.

 

Barry

Edited March 4, 2016 by Eagledad

[blw2 433]

Stosh, as always some good suggestions... but you're taking the canned question too literally.  Eagledad covered the canned question concern well i think.  It's about getting the ball rolling!

Oh, I'll bet some of your ideal boards of review would end up being over almost before they start!

 

First, lets remember the purpose of the BOR. It is a quality check on the Scoutmasters program, not the scout. If the scout appears to be unprepared, the SM should be held accountable. A good scoutmaster wants to hear the results to learn of areas that may need attention. I certainly did. 

 

Our troop has been using the guide Torchwood suggested for over 25 years. I works very well because the questions are pretty good for learning if the SM is in fact doing a good job. It also makes it easy for new board members to ask the right questions and eventually get everyone settled and comfortable enough to relax. That is when a member might ask non canned question that is more personal to the scout, like asking a question that gets the scout talking about his family or school experiences.  

 

And really folks, it's not about the questions being asked, it's how the questions are being asked. The board can take on the image of strange adults judging the scouts performance or they can be a group of adults wanting to get to know the scout better through his scouting experience using the exact same questions. 

 

Our board looks very much like stosh describes his ideal board. We use a lot of  canned questions because they help the board and scouts get comfortable quickly. Adults who don't have a lot of experience and don't have a few canned questions tend to either not ask any questions, or ask inappropriate questions. 

 

Everyone of course wants the BOR experience for the Scout to be positive. But we forget that the adults should want the same experience. Nothing is more rewarding than getting to know a scout better.  Our board tries to be warm, encouraging and enthusiastically curious about the scout's experiences in the troop. You know the board is doing well when the adults come out excited from the experience. That is why I like parents being part of the board.

 

We found that our Patrol Leaders and SPL like to introduce the scouts to the board. That wasn't an adult idea, it came from the scouts. Probably an Eagle started that from his EBOR, I don't know. But the scouts sure enjoy it and I like anything that breaks the ice for the BOR candidate. 

 

Our troop has two or three BOR leaders that head the BORs. We like that because typically one of them is with troop where ever it is and can call a BOR board together anytime a scout request. The BOR leader has the canned questions and looks for two other members. They coach the board a little before the scout shows up. It works for our troop and the scouts like it. 

 

One final note, I have always felt that if the troop truly wants to learn about how well the program is doing, the board should also talk to the parents. Oh I know that is logistically challenging, but many boys aren't going to be completely open to a bunch of strange adults. The parents on the other hand might. And, it is an opportunity for the parents to say what is good about the troop. We have never tried it, but I have always wanted to try it.

 

Barry

 

Great response Barry!

That point about the quality check points to me #3.... so dropping that isn't really an option IMO.

 

Anyway, almost everything else in all the posts so far describe my vision of how our could be better, except maybe the sitting the scout in the middle of a circle.  Man, that would make me feel like I'm under the heat lamp!

[Eagledad 2779]

 

 

Anyway, almost everything else in all the posts so far describe my vision of how our could be better, except maybe the sitting the scout in the middle of a circle.  Man, that would make me feel like I'm under the heat lamp!

The scout is not in the middle of the circle, he is an equal part of the circle. Actually a square since typically it's just the four of them. 

 

Barry

[blw2 433]

ahhh..... that makes more sense!

[Stosh 3452]

Stosh, as always some good suggestions... but you're taking the canned question too literally.  Eagledad covered the canned question concern well i think.  It's about getting the ball rolling!

Oh, I'll bet some of your ideal boards of review would end up being over almost before they start!

 

  One BOR member asks the question, "Well, how's it going?"  .

 

That's a canned question that gets the ball rolling.....   

 

Not really, the chatty boys have been known to rattle on for a half hour or so.  Some of the newbies take a while to come out of their shells.  I pretty much prime their pumps before they go into the SMC with the idea that they take any question they ask and carry on about it until the Board stops him.  That way they only ask a couple of questions.  Hundreds of uncomfortable questions can be avoided if all the answers aren't just "Yep" and "Nope".

Edited March 4, 2016 by Stosh

[CalicoPenn 729]

Question - how would you make the determination that a Scout knows his stuff?  And what "stuff" are you expecting him to know?  Remember, the BOR is not a re-test.  The best way to know if a Scout knows his stuff is to see him in action over time, putting to use what he has learned and practiced?

 

 

One of the BOR's responsibilities is to make sure that the Scout has met all the requirements.  I think too many folks think that means they need to re-test the Scout on the requirements when that is not what this responsibility means.  Unfortunately, the BSA sometimes can't get out of its own way so instead of explaining it in plain language as an administrative task to make sure all the boxes are checked off (heaven forbid we suggest that BORs have something of an administrative task to do - why, we won't ever find people to serve on BORs if we ask them to do something clerk-like), the BSA comes up with no re-testing language that a bunch of folks like to ignore anyway.

 

So I ask again, how to determine if a Scout "knows his stuff"?

[Stosh 3452]

Ask if he has ever taught the skill to others and how did that work out.

 

Ask if he ever uses that skill places other than scouting.

 

Ask when the last time he had to use that skill.

 

Ask if that skill was interesting enough to learn more about it in the future.

 

Ask how he helps other people at all times.

 

Ask how he was helpful to someone today.

 

Ask what it means to be brave when someone's being bullied.

 

Ask questions that relate to the skill and how it's used and whether he is using the skill he was taught.

 

If the boy says the skill is stupid, useless, and he'd never use it in his entire life, ask him if he knows what the Scout Motto is. 

[Torchwood 177]

Stosh-

 

Nicely put!

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Good advice all.

 

One thing my troop does, and I kinda like, is use a meeting room with a sofa in it. That seems to settle down the Scouts and keep them from getting nervous. Just remind them not to lay down on the sofa like they are watching a movie

[perdidochas 658]

As some of you know, i'm a fairly new reformed Cub Scouter... haven't been in the troop committee all that long.

 

I was recently blindsided into rounding out a BOR, they needed a 3rd committee member, and I was handy.  

 

I asked a few questions, but let the others do most of the asking... mainly because they were shooting them out quick and beat me to several that i was thinking

 

Anyway, my gut-feel evaluation of the experience:

• It was a decent introductory experience for the scout in preparation for future job interviews and the like... just getting used to being in the spotlight
• Some of it seemed almost more like a drill.  the scout was asked to stand front, repeat the oath, law, etc... and was kept standing the whole time
• most questions lacked much depth for either side.  We weren't asking the scout things to make him think or that would result in his learning or gaining something good..... and for the committee, really doing an evaluation of the health of the program.

 

My ideas:

1. I felt like it could have been perhaps a bit more conversational in a way, ask the scout to sit, etc...
2. and really try to find out if the scout has any good ideas for change, or needs
3. and really find out if the scout knows his stuff... that the program is succeeding and not pencil whipping.

I think doing #1, will fairly easily lead to #2

But #3 is tricky.  The BOR isn't a test.  The scout has already earned rank, so it shouldn't feel like a test in my thinking..

 

So my questions

What are some good canned questions to hold in my back pocket?

How do your BOR differ in a positive way?

 

I haven't done a BOR in a few years, but our Troop didn't do it like you describe.  The Scout came in, and while standing, said the Pledge, Scout Oath and Scout law. Then the Scout sat down, and we had a conversation, kind of like a job interview, but also trying to find out about the program. 

 

#3 is the hardest to accomplish.  However, by asking a Scout questions about say cooking or knots, and what the hardest part about it was, or what they liked/hated about it, does tend to lead you to figure out how well Scouts are learning the skills.