Splitting A Troop For Campouts?

[SpEdScouter]

I think as the Scout grows it would be good to give them more opportunities to do more rustic or adventure camping and backpacking.

 

BUT, troops also have alot of younger Scouts who still are just getting used to sleeping in a tent.

 

So, would it work out to have 2 types of campouts? One of basic campouts for the newer scouts? The second, for say 1rst class and above, which would be more advanced and rustic?

 

Would that work out?

Edited August 8, 2015 by SpEdScouter

[Gone]

We do two camp outs on different weekends. Older scouts attend both. Younger scouts just one.

 

Splitting on th same weekend will lead to an unwanted segmenting of scouts. The older scouts should be leading and teaching the younger ones.

 

We had to take four years to fix our troop a long while back when one of our SMs did just what you propose. Two years of doing that caused four years work to fix it back.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Bad Wolf

[Hedgehog]

We've taken a hybrid approach for some outings.  Older guys set out on a backpackng trip on Friday.  Do 4 miles, camp.  Wake up on Saturday, do 4 miles and meet up with younger scouts.  They do 6 miles together and camp.  On Sunday, they do another 4 miles together.  We've done COPE weekends where they guys are together in the morning and the older guys do some more challenging stuff in the afternoon while the younger guys climb on the rock wall.  We did one campout where one group (mostly 7th graders and up) biked 25 miles to and from camp and another group just took cars.

 

That being said, we've found that you really shouldn't underestimate the younger guys.  They have enthusiasm and want to do adventurous activities.  We don't limit the boys based on age or rank.  We have more adventurous activities and if the boy thinks they can do it, they are welcome to try.  The only time I've had to dissuade a boy is when a recent Webelos crossover was interested in doing a 50 mile backpacking trip (the parents completely understood that this wasn't a good first backpacking trip when I talked to them, but you've got to love the boy's enthusiasm!).  The more you do with the younger guys, the more they can do.

 

We've got sea kayacking, backpacking, 

[Wëlënakwsu]

The goal is for the Patrol to stay together and if the Patrol has different ages, don't split them up. 

A backpacking trip might not be the ideal first trip for a new Scout. So whenever your Troop gets a batch of new Scouts plan accordingly. 

I would encourage all camping to be "rustic", ie no car camping, no cabins (well maybe winter !)... boys learn fast

[Stosh]

I guess Captain Obvious must have missed the 300' between patrols suggestion?  Of course that could also imply 300'+ as well.

 

All my campouts tend to be "rustic" in nature in that the boys carry in what they will use.  If they have to make multiple trips, that's their choice, but as time goes on they get better at it.

 

Activities are planned by patrol so at the camporees etc. they pretty much do their own thing, but there are occasions where a patrol will do activities without the rest of the troop "tagging along."  It just depends on what the boys plan for their activities.

[blw2]

 

 

All my campouts tend to be "rustic" in nature in that the boys carry in what they will use.  If they have to make multiple trips, that's their choice, but as time goes on they get better at it.

 

 

just looking from the outside, I think this is the way it should be as a general rule....

perhaps with a luxuriating plop camp once in a while as a special "treat"  if they want it.....  The boys would probably have more fun for the most part with the rustic..... just my guess.

[qwazse]

Our boys at every level of skill and maturity look for a variety of campouts ... some more challenging than others.

 

So, if every month is a 20 mile hike uphill both ways, we'll lose boys. If every month we plop at adirondacks, we'll lose boys.

 

Gotta mix it up.

[SpEdScouter]

We've taken a hybrid approach for some outings.  Older guys set out on a backpackng trip on Friday.  Do 4 miles, camp.  Wake up on Saturday, do 4 miles and meet up with younger scouts.  They do 6 miles together and camp.  On Sunday, they do another 4 miles together.  We've done COPE weekends where they guys are together in the morning and the older guys do some more challenging stuff in the afternoon while the younger guys climb on the rock wall.  We did one campout where one group (mostly 7th graders and up) biked 25 miles to and from camp and another group just took cars.

 

That being said, we've found that you really shouldn't underestimate the younger guys.  They have enthusiasm and want to do adventurous activities.  We don't limit the boys based on age or rank.  We have more adventurous activities and if the boy thinks they can do it, they are welcome to try.  The only time I've had to dissuade a boy is when a recent Webelos crossover was interested in doing a 50 mile backpacking trip (the parents completely understood that this wasn't a good first backpacking trip when I talked to them, but you've got to love the boy's enthusiasm!).  The more you do with the younger guys, the more they can do.

 

We've got sea kayacking, backpacking, 

Well that might be the best option. Have just one campout but have both advanced and basic portions. 

 

One troop we were in only had basic campouts but the advanced boys went camping on their own aside from the troop. But they were getting ready for Philmont. 

[perdidochas]

I think as the Scout grows it would be good to give them more opportunities to do more rustic or adventure camping and backpacking.

 

BUT, troops also have alot of younger Scouts who still are just getting used to sleeping in a tent.

 

So, would it work out to have 2 types of campouts? One of basic campouts for the newer scouts? The second, for say 1rst class and above, which would be more advanced and rustic?

 

Would that work out?

We did that in the spring with our crossovers. They crossed over two weeks before a planned backpacking trip.  The older boys still did the backpacking trip, but the younger boys (and the less adventurous older boys) went to the Spring Camporee the same weekend. Seemed to work for us.

[Stosh]

Our boys at every level of skill and maturity look for a variety of campouts ... some more challenging than others.

 

So, if every month is a 20 mile hike uphill both ways, we'll lose boys. If every month we plop at adirondacks, we'll lose boys.

 

Gotta mix it up.

 

Nope, the boys decide what they want to do.  If they want to go rustic, fine.  If they want to plop, fine,  If they mix it up, fine.  I don't gotta do nuttin'  

[qwazse]

Nope, the boys decide what they want to do.  If they want to go rustic, fine.  If they want to plop, fine,  If they mix it up, fine.  I don't gotta do nuttin'  

Hey, boy-led bulldog, stop inferring facts not in evidence.

I'm only quoting what the bosses told me over the years. And yes, once they are adults, they ask me why I didn't crack the whip on them more. But I quickly point out they have plenty of opportunities to submit themselves to drill instructors or life coaches or spouses. They deserve at least one place to look back on their youth and say "That trip? My idea!"

[Hedgehog]

Nope, the boys decide what they want to do.  If they want to go rustic, fine.  If they want to plop, fine,  If they mix it up, fine.  I don't gotta do nuttin'  

 

Quarterback:  I'm going to call four passing plays this series.

Coach: You're in charge.

 

OR

 

Quarterback: I'm going to call four passing plays this series.

Coach: Their secondary has been playing behind our receivers and they have two substitutes in for linebackers, you might want to think about a play action.

 

“Scouting is a game for boys under the leadership of boys under the direction of a man.†Baden Powel.  

 

When it comes to the outdoor program, we are there to guide, suggest and to provide considerations.  That way, the boys learn how to make good decisions and, eventually how to guide, suggest and provide considerations.  In the meantime, the program doesn't suffer because the boys haven't been taught how to lead.

[Gone]

I suspect @@Stosh is not merely sitting by and letting his boys run the whole show without some pearls of wisdom and guidance being dropped in their path to guide their decision a bit.

[Stosh]

All my boys from day one are given the opportunity to lead, are given skills to teach and care for others, and generally treated as a peer in the adult association method.  I don't direct, coach, mandate, guide, or whatever.  In our local Canoe/Kayak Club of adults, I am just another kayaker and in the troop I treat the boys the same way.  They are the ones running the show.  I guess to a certain degree, I do have an influence on what the boys do.  If the activity is inappropriate to BSA, I simply excuse myself from the activity and don't attend.  In the 30+ years of adult "leading" in a troop, that has happened only a couple of times that I can remember.  

 

Three out of the four weekends per month are pretty much mine to do with as I see fit.  One is dedicated to what the boys want to do.  However at the evening campfire they do get regaled with my "adventures".  Pictures are passed around last meeting of my loop tour through the Washington peninsula with pictures of our hike through Olympic National Park and our afternoon of tide pooling at Ruby Beach.  Then I showed them the pictures of the National Car Museum in Tacoma and the Heritage Airplane Museum in Everett.  Do I direct or just dangle little carrots out there?  

 

Last summer camp we shared a campsite with another troop from a different council and different state.  I was doing one of these brag and gag outings for my boys and the other boys were listening.  Well, last week I get a call from one of the boys from that other troop wanting me to help them set up a week long canoe trip instead of doing summer camp next summer.  

 

In late August the Mrs. and I are going to be hiking the Porkies in N. Michigan.  The boys have been invited to go along if they wish and are willing to set it up with meals and travel plans.  Makes no never mind to me what they decide.  I only create opportunities.

[Hedgehog]

Makes no never mind to me what they decide.  I only create opportunities.

 

@@Stosh - We are in agreement.  What you call creating opportunity by discussing what you have done, I call coaching by making suggestions and asking questions.

 

Me:  "You guys want to do something involving a float trip... what could we do?"

Scouts: "Canoeing or sea kayaking"

Me: "Caneing on a river or in a lake?"

Scouts:  "We like going on the Delaware."

Me: "We did that last year, do you think that would affect turn out?"

Scouts: "No, we did it last year and want to do it again."

Me: "OK, what about sea kayaking?"

Scouts:  "How about in the fall?"

Me: "We can do that.  Do you want a one day trip or a campout?"

Scouts: "It would be great if we could camp out - the weather is usually great for camping in the fall."