Nipping Behavioral Problems In The Bud

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Well, most of you have heard about the troop falling apart in my district. You've heard mostly about the SM not following the Patrol Method and appointing leaders; meetings are being used as MB classes; not working with their CO's pack; not participating in district activities, etc. I don't know if I've mentioned behavioral problems, in particular with the SM's son, but several folks have left becasue of him. To qoute my son, "He's a bully constantly picking on people." When he was a Webelos I saw some of this, and know for a fact that when the troop was electing leaders, no one would vote for him because of his bad behaviour. That's why the SM appoints leaders so "Everyone gets a chance."

 

Well maybe it's a good thing they don't do much with other units as the bad behaviour apparently is increasing. Thankfully the original problem child is not at summer camp that both my troop and they are attending. Long story short it appears that the folks who are there are trying to start trouble with my troop, especially with one of the two guys who transfered from them to us. Worse part is, the guy causing the most trouble use to be his best friend, being in my old den together and in the same classes in school until one moved, and transfered to our troop. Thankfully my son hasn't been subjected to some of the physical aspects of bullying, but he's heard some of the language. And's made a comment that the Scout has changed in last 18 months.

 

Their leader has been informed, and we had a very long conversation with our Scouts last night about the various incidents that have been occuring the past few days at camp. Hopefully the matter is solved. We'll see however.

 

Folks, if you have a scout who is causing problems, please nip it in the bud. I may be wrong, but I think because the problems with the original youth were not corrected and taken care when they first happened, the rest of the youth see that behaviour, and are modelling it. I know the first troop I was in had some issues, and threats and language were the means used by the PL and SPL to get things done. And I know when I had problems when I first became a PL, I modeled that behavior when a problem arose. Thankfully my SM, and SPL were there to correct me and mentor me.

 

[fred johnson 936]

Folks, if you have a scout who is causing problems, please nip it in the bud. I may be wrong, but I think because the problems with the original youth were not corrected and taken care when they first happened, the rest of the youth see that behaviour, and are modelling it. I know the first troop I was in had some issues, and threats and language were the means used by the PL and SPL to get things done. And I know when I had problems when I first became a PL, I modeled that behavior when a problem arose. Thankfully my SM, and SPL were there to correct me and mentor me.

 

I hugely agree. 

 

Even more so, dealing with bad behavior in itself is a teaching opportunity.  Dealing with it teaches ... 

• proper behavior
• how to stand up for what is right
• how to address issues
• that boorish and mean and bad behavior will not be tolerated

Most importantly, dealing with bad behavior teaches our scouts that we want to be the type of person who will stand-up and call a spade a spade.  Strong character.  If it's wrong, we need to have strong enough character to stand up and tell others it's wrong ... in a constructive way. 

 

Not dealing with bad behavior also teachers lessons and they are the type of lessons that will destroy boy scouting.

 

Everyone fears loosing scouts and everyone wants to help all youth.  ... It's to the degree that we are shooting ourselves in the foot.  Scouting is good for every youth, but every youth is not good for scouting.  Either scouts live within the values of scouting or go find somewhere else to spend your time.  May I suggest the local soccer or baseball program.

Edited June 25, 2015 by fred johnson

[qwazse 4345]

Yeah, we have bad kids. We know they will poke at the fences.

They know we're more than prepared to send them home if they do.

 

Certainly the opportunity to be voted down by their peers serves as a great tool for reflection.

[SSScout 1616]

Always relate it to the Scout Promise and Law.    And while you're at it, the  Golden Rule.....  Then go back to the BSA guidelines and policy.

[MattR 2659]

One side effect of letting scouts form their own patrols is all of those that cause trouble are in the same patrol in my troop. I told them they have the most energy and will either be the best patrol or will fight with each other and be miserable. The difference being whether they follow the Oath and Law. I told them it's their choice but if they keep acting like cub scouts I will treat them like cub scouts. I went into the details of what that meant and got their attention. I also asked them to explain the humor of some off color jokes in detail. Talk about embarrassing a kid ("so the mayonnaise represents semen? How is that funny? Really, please explain." Long uncomfortable silence with me staring right at them). The words "I'm dissapointed in your actions because they don't reflect who I think you are" had a surprising impact. But it will still take many iterations of this. Kids don't change that quickly.

[Cambridgeskip 658]

When I became SL (what you call SM) after years of being a cub leader in 2009 I inherited a discipline problem. The troop while of a decent size wasn't functioning and there was a core of about half a dozen trouble makers who were disrupting thing.

 

My biggest regret is that I didn't crack down on it quickly enough. It wasn't a situation that I could let peer discipline sort out, it had gone beyond that.

 

Before I got control I lost 3 or 4 good scouts who left in frustration.

 

However once I did crack the wip I can tell you that it only takes sending one scout home on the spot to get the message. One particular trouble maker told me, in front of the rest of the troop that I was stupid. I told him to leave the room, handed over to an assistant leader, phoned his parents and they came and collected him. The scouts were quite shocked to see what I had done and his parents were mortified at being summoned and within a few weeks had left the troop.

 

The message though go through and things quickly settled down, albeit we did lose one or two more trouble makers soon after.

[Twocubdad 665]

Good job, Skip.  I've found you need to do that every couple years least they forget.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Well, my son's SM knows how to handle discipline. Sending folks home. He actually sent the entire troop home 1 time, about a month or two before Oldest joined it. The lesson was learned and the older Scouts informed everyone, that the SM doesn't play and tell the story how they got sent home 1 time. We have not had those behavior problems.

 

I think bad behavior is like an infectious disease: if it isn't treated immediately the rest of the troop sees it, sees it's not getting corrected, and imitates it so that it grows. Unfortunately the SM believes that his son is can do no evil and that it's always other peoples fault ( yes, one time he told me that) He refuses to discipline his son. And as a result people have left. And those who remain apparently are following their SPL's lead.

[MattR 2659]

I've given my spl authority to send scouts home. It's never been used but the scouts know he has it. The spl is less likely to send a scout home than I am so it works. One problem it solves is the scouts that are perfect when adults are around but quite selfish when adults are not around. We ask that the pl try to solve the problem but if that doesn't work the spl is brought in. If it still doesn't work and it comes to me then I just have to find a ride home. A couple of times it has come to me and I start looking for keys when all of a sudden everyone starts cooperating. The goal of all this to push the whole problem and solution, including respect of authority, down to the scouts. The scout leaders struggle with being the bad guy and some scouts know that.

[JoeBob 606]

I'm with the majority on this.  Do not tolerate bad behavior or you'll wind up with more bad behavior.  6 of our new scouts are a mob that feeds off of their own bad behavior.  They try to outdo each other.  2 of them had 'Come to Jesus' meetings during our recent camp.

 

Scout A would not stop yelling in his raft.  He was disrupting the wilderness experience for the whole troop.  ASPL assigned him extra KP when he didn't quiet down.  Later he flat out refused to do the KP.  In a meeting with SPL, ASPL, and SM he was informed that he MUST obey instructions from the older boys in PORs or we could not be responsible for his safety in High Adventure activities.  His parents would probably be irate at having to drive several hours to come and get him, but we would not have an uncontrollable boy in our care.  Obedience ensued once he realized that we were not joking or yelling with no consequence; like at home.

 

Scout B is a master back-talker and disruptive joker.  He's accustomed to getting away with bad behavior with a cute smile.  At the Cataloochee Group Camp, a heavy bear area, we discussed what to do if one saw a bear.  Everyone yells "Bear!" and comes out of your tents with arms raised to be big.  A twinkle was observed in his eyes that foretold of a prank opportunity.  He was already slated for an SMC about talking back to adults and guides, so we turned it into an official warning that he would be banished for 6 months if he committed another disruptive act.  He also learned that his Scout Spirit was in question for his next rank advancement.  He was good for the rest of the trip.

 

The other trouble makers settled down once it was demonstrated that our troop is a team.  They can play with us, but they'll lose if they play against us.

[Stosh 3452]

All my boys know that if they get a ride home for bad behavior, it's a one-way trip.  They don't come back.  No warnings, no threats, no second chances.  Either you look and act like a scout or you're history.  That's all part of the orientation chat on the 3 rules of the troop.  Not many rules, but if you break them, there's no such thing as boy-led anymore for that scout, it's all adults at that point.  I think that for this reason, I have never had to send a boy home.

 

I might add, that once in the past year and a half with this new troop, I had to do the "sign's up" routine.  When I did, you could have heard a pin drop.  I don't think they ever want to see that again from me.    They know that I do not treat them with rudeness and I don't tolerate rudeness very well.   

Edited June 28, 2015 by Stosh