Relearning cub scouting. It's an eye opener

[moosetracker 132]

Well I am somehow back in cub scouting, and kind of acting like a Pack Trainer to a Pack that is starting over. The pack never really folded, But there isn't a single cub / parent in the pack who has been in the program more then 10 months. There are some spots that worry me, but I have high hopes for it.. Our wolves and tiger group are strong, the wolves especially they have 9 cubs and seem to keep adding a cub every week to their den. The tigers are only 4, but they may pick up more next year as the wolves did. I only had one Bear, Webs I and Webs II, and tried combining them into one group.. I think I just lost the Bear, but they are in that "ignoring you" phase where we can't write them off yet, but have not come and wont respond to email or a phone call.

 

So I am looking at how to keep two Webs entertained, and organize two sort of reluctant parents to take on the jobs of Den leaders.. I still feel when Webelos II either bridges over, or is adopted (he is in foster care and there is a family interested in adopting) I have no clue as to how to work with one scout, and really feel it may be best to point him to the Pack in the next town over.. I kind of feel, the troop that feeds off this Pack will fold for a year or so until we work our wolves up to bridging over anyway.. Didn't feel that way, until I lost the Bear, and found out the Webs II was probably due to move out of area pretty soon. Until then I thought we had a chance of feeding them one scout a year, and who knows, maybe might had added a scout or two, after all our recruitment this Fall gave us these 3 older scouts. Now I feel that desperately hanging onto a lone scout will do him no favors.. But, while I got two, I am working hard with them now.

 

So what to do with a den of two (three?).. If the Bear is gone, I will move the group over to the same night as the other dens, who meet in the great room at the church together.. The Bear couldn't make that night. But a big empty church for two scouts and their parents echo's of loneliness.. It really does. At least if we can move them with the others there is the energy of the other kids to feed off of, even if you are doing your own things. Perhaps we can organize a 10 minute game at the beginning or end, that could be played as a group.. Beginning is good for a time filler as people arrive, but I would have to find a parent willing to take the job on and get to the meeting early.. At the end might be good, as the Boy Scout troop comes in right after the Cub Scout group ends.. Might even get a Boy scout or two willing to come early and hosting the game, and the other BS could join in as they arrive unless we find the games to be physical and our tigers are being trampled on my our 15 - 16 year old scouts.

 

Anyway Back to the working with the Webs group.. So, I found most games wont do as most games are for more the two players, team building.. No, teams building exercises again plan on more then two on the team.. I have landed on some books that are fun science, and bought those. It seems like a lot of the category breakdowns in the book go well with an activity pin or belt loop. Anyone else work with the "365 Science experiments" books.. Seems like most experiments are with household items and wont break the bank.

 

Well that lead me to really pulling up and looking at the belt loops, to see what some science projects would help them earn. I had already been looking over the achievement pins and were fine with the requirements for those. But, the belt loop requirements shocked me.. Either my sons den leaders did it wrong, or they have changed in the last 15 - 18 years.. Belt loops were something you earned by sneezing.. Go bowling, get the bowling belt loop, play marbles for 5 minutes earn that belt loop, etc.. Not complaining too much, I thought even at the time my son went through it they were too easy, and became a financial hardship on our pack. I know our pack limited it to they would only pay for a belt loop once, as people wanted to re-earn the same belt loop over at each rank.. Still, it's is now something I have to look into..

 

I also found a nice Fall outing. About a 35 minute drive from us is a "Tree & Shrub ID walk" within a nature preserve which will talk about how to identify trees/shrubs in the winter, and how the animals depend on the forestry to survive in the winter.. Well now that got me looking at if the scouts might like to start the "Leave No Trace" award.

 

Then, because I was looking at what we could do with the science stuff, I ended up going through the Nova and SuperNova stuff.. I saw there was a thread last month on it on this board and read that.. Well, I definitely would be that cubedweller, that Basement & Packsaddle object to, but I think our wolf Den leader has a job that is more science like, so if my Webs end up moving to the same time/night as the rest of the Pack, we may have some help there.

 

Anyway.. I am now lost in a tangle of confusion.. 500 hundred paths to choose from, which way to go.. If we start them all, will we finish any of them?.. It just didn't seem so complex when my son was a cub scout.. Of course back then, I just let the den leader figure it out and followed the path set by the Den Leader blindly. Oh the good ol' days..

[AKdenldr 33]

MT, I got lost in your tangle of thoughts, so forgive me if I am off base.

 

Can the troop take on your Webelos as a project? Even short term? Could they meet at troop time (or even earlier troop night) and do a number of their things with boy scouts, ASMs, and MBCs? Could a boy scout a week come early to their meeting and lead a closing game for your pack dens? If you pick the games for a while the boyscouts will get the hang of it. I like ping pong ball blow.

 

I wouldn't focus on beltloops when the program is so new -- focus on the tiger/bear/wolf achievements and electives which are right in the book.

 

Getting them outside is really a good idea.

 

Just some random thoughts back..

[Basementdweller 608]

I like AK's thinking here......Sub them out to the troop. You will retain them instead of losing them.

 

Have a number of Web 2's that have been guests of the troop the last couple of months......They want to join the troop but the Pack and their den leader will not let them cross over yet or award their arrow of light.......A woman on a power trip......I tried to be reasonable with her, but she won't award it till the Blue and Gold.

 

 

My objections to cubedwelling code monkeys doing stem......Is a couple of hours with google doesn't make you an expert or even enthusiastic about the material. the boys are better served by a true expert in the subject.

 

[qwazse 4342]

The tree/shrub identification hike is sheer genius, Definitely leverage you science/tech DL. Also a group like what you describe would do well to meet your local game commissioner. A lot of science BTW requires some cube-dwelling. When I presented the scientist pin to Son#2's den, the one thing that they were very engaged with, was a 200 page binder of one analysis that I had just finished working on. (Think charts and graphs 'till you feel vertigo and you get the idea.) They ate up the idea that surveying thousands of kids just like them could result in a scatter plot where everybody was different, yet they showed a trend (or not, depending on the variables). My point is, that each parent and lots of folks in your community may have something to offer these boys, and you just don't know until you give them a try.

[Stosh 3452]

Moose, When I was an ASM for a troop, I did my WB ticket on the Web -> BS transition. I took the Webelos and met for an hour prior to the Troop meeting where the Troop met. I covered as many pins as possible and the Web I boys all earned AOL at the end of Web I. We met weekly. There were no Web II boys that year. Second year I reviewed the pins, did some outings, hikes, camping etc. and when it came time to visit a troop, I just postponed the meeting 1 hour and it went smoothly. During the second year, the Web II's could "cross-over" whenever they wanted to when they reached 10 1/2 years old. Eventually the den disappeared and all the boys stayed with the troop except one who moved out of the area. The remaining 5-6 all Eagled. Basically they were all used to the idea of weekly meetings at that location and kept up the process until they aged out. The hardship for me? I had to show up an hour early ready with the pin activity. No big deal. One of the boys at his ECOH came to me and thanked me personally for all I had done. No other male adult had spent that much time with him (9 years) other than his Dad.

 

Stosh

[moosetracker 132]

Jblake - that is a thought. We need to have the Webs II earn the AOL anyway, it would be much simpler if we didn't break the two up and teach the Web I the AOL only.. Never thought of having the Web I earn the AOL early on.. Perhaps because at the time, I was still planning with a Bear in the den and he couldn't earn the AOL.. Anyway a brilliant idea. Also now I am curious when the Webs I will turn 10 1/2.. He's small & scrappy, but that doesn't always equate to age.

 

Also I have been toying with troop participation. I was thinking of the end game being organized by a BS.. Could even make it into some sort of Den cheif position if a boy is interested. Seriously the troop is so small though the boys have no problem getting a troop position. I was also debating recommending that the Webs keep their 6:30 - 7:30 time slot. The rest of the Pack meets 6-7, the Troop meets 7-8.. If the Webs meet 6:30 - 7:30 then they will spend 1/2 hour with Pack and 1/2 hour with troop..

 

Akdenldr - I agree I am rambling, but that is where my mind is at right now trying to absorb all the stuff. It just seems every time I tried to understand a concept, rather then getting more detailed info on the subject matter, I get diverted down a new and different rabbit hole.. So now I am mentally sitting in a totally confusing maze of "Which way do I go? Which way do I go?"

 

qwaze - I was happy to find the tree/shrub ID event.. I was looking for an event I saw a year of so earlier which ran in Jan. which was animal tracking in the snow. I didn't find it offered this year unfortunately, but I did find this one.

[Stosh 3452]

Jblake - that is a thought. We need to have the Webs II earn the AOL anyway, it would be much simpler if we didn't break the two up and teach the Web I the AOL only.. Never thought of having the Web I earn the AOL early on.. Perhaps because at the time, I was still planning with a Bear in the den and he couldn't earn the AOL.. Anyway a brilliant idea. Also now I am curious when the Webs I will turn 10 1/2.. He's small & scrappy, but that doesn't always equate to age.

 

Also I have been toying with troop participation. I was thinking of the end game being organized by a BS.. Could even make it into some sort of Den cheif position if a boy is interested. Seriously the troop is so small though the boys have no problem getting a troop position. I was also debating recommending that the Webs keep their 6:30 - 7:30 time slot. The rest of the Pack meets 6-7, the Troop meets 7-8.. If the Webs meet 6:30 - 7:30 then they will spend 1/2 hour with Pack and 1/2 hour with troop..

 

Akdenldr - I agree I am rambling, but that is where my mind is at right now trying to absorb all the stuff. It just seems every time I tried to understand a concept, rather then getting more detailed info on the subject matter, I get diverted down a new and different rabbit hole.. So now I am mentally sitting in a totally confusing maze of "Which way do I go? Which way do I go?"

 

qwaze - I was happy to find the tree/shrub ID event.. I was looking for an event I saw a year of so earlier which ran in Jan. which was animal tracking in the snow. I didn't find it offered this year unfortunately, but I did find this one.

There were a couple of advantages to the program I ran. All the Web I boys had a chance to earn all the pins. With a weekly meeting, we had more than enough time to cover it all. The second year, we focused more on doing fun things, but still re-covered all the pins a few of the boys had missed out on. The boys all earned AOL at the den meetings, not pack meetings. They did get special recognition at the pack meeting as well. Once they had AOL the pressure was off and the boys could relax and have fun on outings, at activities, etc.

 

After getting AOL, they could at any time after their 10 1/2 age limit, simply start going to the troop meetings an hour later. They were already in the routine of weekly meetings and was already well established. Some of the boys held off so they could participate in the Pinewood Derby, but even that wasn't much of a draw to keep them in the den time slot.

 

By the way, because we were "redoing pins" the second year, I based them off the Tenderfoot requirements. I couldn't add to the Readyman pin's requirements the first time around, but I did the second time adding the Tenderfoot requirements. Because of this, all the boys "crossed-over" to Boy Scouts and had already "earned" their Tenderfoot. I worked closely with the SM of the troop to keep him up to speed and he had no problem accepting them as Tenderfoot as they came into the troop. We practiced SMC's and BOR's with the boys before they crossed-over and the adults of the troop were very pleased with the boys coming in and had no problem accepting them as Tenderfoot scouts.

 

During that Web II transition year, as ASM, I knew what was going on in the troop and whenever they had a nice activity planned, we just jumped in on it and as a result, the Web II boys were functioning as a pseudo-patrol on those activities so it never was a disruption to the troop.

 

The summer of Web II we had a major camping outing for the Web II boys where we went out to a deserted island and camped for the weekend. Well, it sounds more adventurous than it really was. It was a 20 minute canoe paddle out to an island near by, set up camp, dug latrines and did the whole 9 yards. We had a few scouts come along to help with the activity which comprised of father/Webs. It was really a great outing, but we caught flack from the troop in that the few Boy Scouts went back and complained that the Web II boys had steak, baked potatoes and corn-on-the-cob for dinner and the troop never did that!!!

 

In the end, the process worked well for both the Cubs and Boys and as far as the "transition", there really wasn't much, because for 2 years the Cubs progressively melded into the troop seamlessly.

 

Those boys stayed together as a patrol throughout their Boy Scout career and except for the one that moved away, all got go to Jamboree, Philmont, Sea Base and BWCA and finally Eagled. The boys still keep in touch. This occurred back in 1993-1995 when I took WB.

 

Stosh

[Eagle92 110]

I like AK's thinking here......Sub them out to the troop. You will retain them instead of losing them.

 

Have a number of Web 2's that have been guests of the troop the last couple of months......They want to join the troop but the Pack and their den leader will not let them cross over yet or award their arrow of light.......A woman on a power trip......I tried to be reasonable with her, but she won't award it till the Blue and Gold.

 

 

My objections to cubedwelling code monkeys doing stem......Is a couple of hours with google doesn't make you an expert or even enthusiastic about the material. the boys are better served by a true expert in the subject.

BD,

 

I can understand a delay until sometime in December due to the 6 months since completing 4th grade, but until FEBRUARY OR MARCH?!?!?!?! (not screaming at ya, but in utter disbeleif.)

 

Is she an old time Cub Scout leader? Does the pack have a long history with "Tradidtions?" I knew of a pack that would not due AOL/Crossover until May, as late as 2007, becasue th pack ALWAYS did AOL/ Crossove rin may,

[moosetracker 132]

I like AK's thinking here......Sub them out to the troop. You will retain them instead of losing them.

 

Have a number of Web 2's that have been guests of the troop the last couple of months......They want to join the troop but the Pack and their den leader will not let them cross over yet or award their arrow of light.......A woman on a power trip......I tried to be reasonable with her, but she won't award it till the Blue and Gold.

 

 

My objections to cubedwelling code monkeys doing stem......Is a couple of hours with google doesn't make you an expert or even enthusiastic about the material. the boys are better served by a true expert in the subject.

Feb or March is the typical time to hold a Blue & Gold and award Rank advancement to all the scouts.. When my son went through it that was a good goal, I swear the requirements were more to it.. We met every week and were watching and strategizing to complete it at that time. Last year since our Pack reformed in Jan. the March deadline was too soon for our scouts, but they only met twice a month..

 

While working with the Webs I looked at the 2 Required activity pins and 1 elected one, and though "That's it?" of course, we had to earn our Webs their Bobcat so a little bit more time.. But yeah, now I am wondering if we will have any rank advancement at the B&G, or if everyone will rank advance before then.

[moosetracker 132]

 

Well, my Webelos I kid will only turn 10.5 in Feb of 2015, so best we will do is cross him over one month before we would have crossed him over at the Blue & Gold..

 

 

I was hoping to meet up with the SM last night, but the troop didn't show up at the church for their normally scheduled Troop meeting. So I just sent him email stating "We have to talk".

[Basementdweller 608]

I like AK's thinking here......Sub them out to the troop. You will retain them instead of losing them.

 

Have a number of Web 2's that have been guests of the troop the last couple of months......They want to join the troop but the Pack and their den leader will not let them cross over yet or award their arrow of light.......A woman on a power trip......I tried to be reasonable with her, but she won't award it till the Blue and Gold.

 

 

My objections to cubedwelling code monkeys doing stem......Is a couple of hours with google doesn't make you an expert or even enthusiastic about the material. the boys are better served by a true expert in the subject.

The AOL requirements can be completed in a year easy. Our webelos go to resident camp and the troop host them on a webelos advancement weekend.

 

Now there are some boys who because of maturity issues need to be in webelos for 2 years.....No disagreement there. there are some that wont be ready for Scouting till they are 14.......

 

 

I say the webelos leader who can't get the job done in 12 months is not doing the job at all.

[christineka 35]

Jblake - that is a thought. We need to have the Webs II earn the AOL anyway, it would be much simpler if we didn't break the two up and teach the Web I the AOL only.. Never thought of having the Web I earn the AOL early on.. Perhaps because at the time, I was still planning with a Bear in the den and he couldn't earn the AOL.. Anyway a brilliant idea. Also now I am curious when the Webs I will turn 10 1/2.. He's small & scrappy, but that doesn't always equate to age.

 

Also I have been toying with troop participation. I was thinking of the end game being organized by a BS.. Could even make it into some sort of Den cheif position if a boy is interested. Seriously the troop is so small though the boys have no problem getting a troop position. I was also debating recommending that the Webs keep their 6:30 - 7:30 time slot. The rest of the Pack meets 6-7, the Troop meets 7-8.. If the Webs meet 6:30 - 7:30 then they will spend 1/2 hour with Pack and 1/2 hour with troop..

 

Akdenldr - I agree I am rambling, but that is where my mind is at right now trying to absorb all the stuff. It just seems every time I tried to understand a concept, rather then getting more detailed info on the subject matter, I get diverted down a new and different rabbit hole.. So now I am mentally sitting in a totally confusing maze of "Which way do I go? Which way do I go?"

 

qwaze - I was happy to find the tree/shrub ID event.. I was looking for an event I saw a year of so earlier which ran in Jan. which was animal tracking in the snow. I didn't find it offered this year unfortunately, but I did find this one.

I have an LDS pack, where boys enter and leave on their birthdays. Due to situations, I had two boys, who had earned their webelos and two boys, who had not. We all meet together, though, so I drew up a plan to complete both webelos and arrow of light. So far, one more boy has earned webelos (the other missed some important meetings for citizenship and hasn't been doing the at home stuff) and three have almost earned their aol. After aol next month, we're just going to relax and do fun stuff for the badges that the youngest boy has not completed.

[moosetracker 132]

 

So here I was told it had to be AOL and 10 1/2 to move over to the troop.. But a different thread said AOL and 10 to move to the troop.. So I looked it up. Reading it I think it is AOL and 10, in which case my youngest Web could move over in September rather then wait for Feb.. The quote below coms from scouting.org, Am I reading this wrong?

 

 

Meet the age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old.

[AKdenldr 33]

This is confusing because part of the requirements are in the Cub program and part are in the BS program. AOL req 1 says "Be active in your Web den for at least 6 months since completing the fourth grade (or at least 6 months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge.

 

So earliest would be Christmas of 5th grade or 10.5 years old for Web to earn the AOL. Based on your school district kindergarden birth dates cut offs most will turning 11 or be 11 by March of 5th grade.

 

But, you were right to thing about how to structure the program to focus on the 8 Activity pins needed for the AOL. You can form your main plan around that.

 

AK