ACLU Re-Defines itself!

[LovetoCamp 9]

Squelch

[SR540Beaver 116]

Jason,

 

Maybe it is your approach.....respectfully, have you ever consider that? I'm been a Christian and a student of the Bible for 40 years. I don't recall Jesus being an overly opinionated, pushy, in your face kind of guy. It usually takes two to push back and forth and considering the number of threads you've created, it could be argued that you are pushing first.

[Jason OK 10]

Did you Forget about this?

 

Matthew 21:12

12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

 

Mark 11:15-18

 

15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; 16 And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. 17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all [1] nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves. 18 And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.

 

 

[boleta 10]

When asked "what would you add to the Scout Law if there were 13 points?" the Eagle candidate replied "acceptance". Another replied "tolerance". This has always been one of my favorite questions to ask the Eagle candidate. Maybe they don't see enough of it in our society.

 

I see the problem as a severe interconnection of religion and politics. And the politics comes from the Savage Nation and Rush Limbaugh. SRBeaver said it very well. The beneficiaries of the ACLU are the same members of society that Jesus would have tried to help. Love your enemies and turn the other cheek. It is not Jason that is being attacked but his hateful and intolerant views.

 

 

 

 

 

[boleta 10]

Hitler, Idi Amin, David Koresh and Jim Jones... These men personify the anti-Christ. As you can see from the responses, many have respect for the ACLU as it takes on unpopular legal battles, whether we agree with the specific issue or not. The opening of this thread suggests that if we respect the ACLU then we respect the Anti Christ. And you wonder why you yourself do not receive respect? As I and others have suggested, Jason, you should stick to Scouting issues. You clearly can use the help.

[Jason OK 10]

How can I turn my cheek when you won't shut up? Do you persecute all whom do not prescribe to the BSA? Do you fail your Eagle Applicants that do not agree with the ACLU?

 

I want the cross on city seals, I want GOD in the Pledge, I want my kids to pray in schools, I want "In God We Trust" on our money, I want my Fire Dept. to put a Manger scene in front of the Station, I wanna see "God Bless America" painted on fire station windows.

 

I am sick of the ACLU taking these things away from my community!

 

I imagine "under your beliefs" I would be put in jail (or beheaded) for not tolerating the ACLU.

 

I have Due process already under the law. I do not need the ACLU.

 

(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

[Jason OK 10]

ACLU Hypocrisy

 

 

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28781

 

ACLU assaults Constitution

 

Posted: August 30, 2002

1:00 a.m. Eastern

 

 

2002 WorldNetDaily.com

 

 

Mainstream America is reeling with absolute shock from the politically correct decision of the University of North Carolina requiring incoming freshmen to read "Approaching the Qu-ran: The Early Revelations."

 

The book clearly is a defense of Islam that conveniently leaves out verses that call for the murder of infidels. UNC Chancellor James Moeser, defended his position of assigning the book saying, "It helps us from demonizing a whole group of people with being an enemy simply by practicing the same religion."

 

Apparently the sacred American Civil Liberties Union doctrines of the separation of church and state only apply to Christians and Jews. How else can you explain why the North Carolina ACLU went to court to support the University of North Carolina's mandatory reading assignment of the pro-Islam book for incoming freshmen?

 

UNC was challenged by concerned groups in the state, but the ACLU rode to the rescue and a federal appeals court sided with the university.

 

Try to imagine the ACLU's legal response had UNC Chancellor Moeser assigned all incoming freshmen to read the Old Testament or the Talmud before being admitted. All hell would have broken loose. Yet, there is no hesitation to demand freshmen students be indoctrinated with a theological virus that birthed the murder of almost 3,000 Americans on 9-11.

 

The First Amendment of the Constitution demands that the government take no position on religion. It is expressly the will of the people. Yet the ACLU in its relentless attack on any form of Christianity comes to the defense of the Islamic faith in a tax-supported University defying the establishment clause of the First Amendment of the Constitution.

 

For those of you lost in the fog created by politically correct educators and the absolutely biased ACLU to lead you into believing that Islam is a faith of love and peace, please note this quote from Winston Churchill:

 

That religion [islam], which above all others was founded and propagated by the sword the tenets and principles of which are ... incentives to slaughter and which in three continents had produced fighting breeds of men simulates a wild and merciless fanaticism.

 

This statement from the brilliant political mind that detected and exposed the dangers of communism to the Western world with his "Iron Curtain" speech at Westminster College in Fulton, Mo.

 

For those who believe Sir Winston was biased, let's turn to the actual text of the Koran. All Americans need to know there are two editions of the Koran: One in Arabic and the other in English. The English version is much more mild than the hardcore fundamentalist Arabic version.

 

Sura 5, verse 85 prophesies an inevitable conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims. "Strongest among men in enmity to the believers [Muslims] wilt thou find the Jews and pagans."

 

Sura 9, verse 5 states: "Then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them. And seize them, beleaguer them and lie and wait for them in every stratagem of war."

 

You can be sure the freshmen at UNC will not be reading these verses. Neither will they read the following:

 

Sura 5:51 states: "O ye who believe [Muslims] take not the Jews or the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you who turns to them [for friendship] is of them." The message is clear. If you accept a Jew or a Christian as a friend, you are not one of us. If you're not one of us you're an infidel.

 

Islamic fundamentalists believe the Koran commands them to fight Christians and Jews: "Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the last day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger [Mohammed] and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [islam] among the people of the scripture [Christians and Jews] until they pay the Jazyah [a special high tax to be paid only by Christians and Jews who do not renounce their faith and convert to Islam] with willing submission and feel themselves subdued." (Surat At-Taubah 9:29)

 

Does this sound peaceful? Does this sound like someone you would like to have for a next door neighbor? Taxing people into poverty who refuse to convert to your faith is peaceful? Killing people who do not submit to Islam is peaceful? Islam is a sister faith to Christianity? Not hardly!

 

Daniel Pipes, historian, writing for Commentary Magazine's November 2001 issue, records the following shocking story:

 

In June 1991, Siraj Wahaj, a convert to Islam, was a recipient of the American Muslim community's highest honors and had the privilege of becoming the first Muslim to deliver the daily prayer in the U.S. House of Representatives.

 

On that occasion he recited from the Koran an appeal to the Almighty to guide American leaders "and grant them righteousness and wisdom."

 

A little over a year later, Siraj Wahaj was addressing an audience of Muslims in New Jersey and articulated a completely different message from his mild and moderate prayer given before the U.S. House of Representatives.

 

He said: "If only Muslims were more clever politically, they would take over the United States and replace its constitutional government with a Caliphate [islamic leadership body].

 

He continued saying: "If we were united and strong, we would elect our own leader and give allegiance to him. Take my word, if the 6 to 8 million Muslims unite in America, the country will come to us."

 

Is this loyal to America? Is this peaceful? Calling for the overthrow of the United States government is a sister faith to Christianity? Not hardly!

 

Yet, at the politically correct University of North Carolina, freshmen are required to read the literature that drives Islamic fundamentalists to kill Christians and Jews to say nothing of destroying America.

 

[boleta 10]

I never thought I would do it. I will ignore this user Jason OK

[boleta 10]

ps Congratulations. You made Senior Forum Member in 21 days.

 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I want the cross on city seals

 

And it doesn't bother you that some people living in the city might not be Christian? Or that some people of all religions living in the city might believe in the First Amendment, which prohibits governmental establishments of religion? Jason, I think the problem is that you want a theocracy, and you had the misfortune not to be born in one.

 

I want GOD in the Pledge

 

He's there, he's there. He'll probably continue to be there (see the part about the money, below.)

 

I want my kids to pray in schools

 

If you mean organized prayer, so send them to private schools. Don't expect my tax dollars to pay for your prayers.

 

I want "In God We Trust" on our money

 

And it will continue to be there, and if it ever does get to court, the courts will probably decide that it gets to stay there because it really has no religious meaning.

 

I want my Fire Dept. to put a Manger scene in front of the Station, I wanna see "God Bless America" painted on fire station windows.

 

See the first response, about the cross on the city seals. You don't live in the correct country to have these things. Well, actually, God Bless America on the fire station windows is probably ok, though I suspect Merlyn will not agree with me.

 

I am sick of the ACLU taking these things away from my community!

 

The ACLU never took anything away from anybody. ACLU lawyers filed cases, and if their legal arguments were accepted by the judges, they won. If not, they lost. The law decided that cannot engage in religious practices for religious purposes, not the ACLU. (I do not mean to say that judges are always correct, or even almost always. But I do believe that ultimately, the correct decision is made most of the time.)

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Ack. The third-to-last sentence in my post should say:

 

The law decided that governments cannot engage in religious practices for religious purposes, not the ACLU.

[OldFart 10]

NJCubScouter,

 

You had quite a bit to say about Jason OK's statement but what about the UNC story?

[packsaddle 753]

"I would certainly hope we don't sit around the campfire and bad mouth or promote Republicans, Democrats, conservatives, liberals, the ACLU, various religions, etc. to the boys."

SR540Beaver, I agree. Actually, around a campfire, I don't even like those subjects myself. I'd much rather talk about food, or girls, or movies, or food, or astronomy, or all the gross stuff inside organisms (not many other takers on that last one, though). Or food.

[LovetoCamp 9]

Pack, flipping through the channels last night, and there he was on AMC, Matt "Guitar" Murphy!!! What a coincidence. P

[Twocubdad 665]

It is against my better judgment to re-engage this thread, but as a graduate of UNC I feel the need to defend the institution.

 

First, the article is obviously a hack piece. (WorldNetDaily? Another member of the liberal media elite, right?) It is interesting to me how these guys can start an article in one direction and then turn on a dime to grind any old ax they like.

 

Secondly, to say that the "ACLU went to court to support the University of North Carolina's mandatory reading assignment of the pro-Islam book" is a reach. It makes it sound that the ACLU took the case as the lead attorney and was the driving force behind the case. Trust me, UNC has some fine attorneys working for them. They can handle the heavy lifting themselves. At best the ACLU filed an "friend of the court" brief in support of the university's position. You want to take a bet at the number of conservative Christian organizations that weighed in for the plaintiff?

 

And the students were not assigned to read the Quoran itself (not that that would have been a bad thing). The book is about Islamic society and the religious teachings on which it is based. In 2002 Islam, Iraq, and the Middle East generally was -- and is -- the most important topic in foreign affairs and probably current events as a whole. What is wrong with requiring students to study a society and religion that has that occupies that much of our national attention? If you were studying Israeli society wouldn't an understanding of Judaism be good? Isn't understanding Hindu philosophy an important part of studying India? I would certainly say that understanding Christianity would be an important part of understanding America.

 

The real issue here is not one of religious freedom but one of academic freedom. Should a university have the right to require it's students to complete certain assignments or not? I had religious reason for not wanting to take organic chemistry -- I didn't have a prayer of passing it. But if you want the degree, it's one of the requirements.

 

And why are you going to the university in the first place? To reconfirm the same old ideas you've always had? Then stay home with your same old friends and re-read the same old books. What's wrong with considering the world from a different point of view? Unless, of course, you are convinced you already have All The Answers, then that would just be a waste of time.