Women in the BSA

[Sturgen 10]

I would like to make something clear as to my beliefs regarding women in general. I have nothing but the highest respect for women, I plan to marry one (and only one) in the relatively near future. I have no issues with women in the business, military, or civil services as long as they may complete their job effectively. However it is my opinion that the vast majority of women cannot fulfill the jobs of SM, ASM, or any of the other leader positions in Boy Scouts, not because of some lack of ability to carry out the technical job, (book keeping, advising, camping, etc) but because of purely biologically caused maternal instincts, a softer heart, and other factors typical in the average American female when dealing with their offspring. Which tends to keep them from permitting their sons to experience life out of the bubble. My cousin in the LA area is a prime example, he has never been camping farther than a mile from the cars, and was shocked when my brothers and I explained why you need a backpack to do any real type of camping, or heaven forbid the idea of cooking on a campfire.

With a vast majority of my life dedicated to scouting, and being very active at the council and district levels and have observed leaders from hundreds of troops. The vast majority of troops run by female scoutmasters were dominated by the scoutmaster leaving little if any choices to the boys, a major exception to this I note is in troops from military bases, and the surrounding area, (a function I believe of the lifestyle of our courageous men and women at arms and their families). As I have asserted before Boy Scouts was designed to be a youth run organization, unfortunately due to the beliefs held by many of the individuals on this site it has fallen to its current state as the B(aby) S(itters) of A(merica).

I recognize that in todays society the nuclear family is difficult to find, even more so in urban areas, an unfortunate consequence of the intrusion of false values into American Culture. (I am not trying to place blame on any of the specific parties involved (unless one of the three As is involved of course)). Because of this female scoutmasters MAY be a necessity for keeping this valuable, although somewhat corrupt, program active in these areas. Doesnt mean that I like it, doesnt mean I think its appropriate, simply that I accept it as fact.

-Sturgen

 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I don't think that what the GSUSA does is particularly relevant to what the BSA does. They are 2 different organizations, they have their rules, "we" have "ours." (I don't mean that the way it sounds, I have the highest respect for the Girl Scouts, in fact a majority of the people residing in my household were Girl Scouts, and one was a Girl Scout co-leader when the other 2 were Girl Scouts. And I did my share of driving-around and stuff also.)

 

But for those who do think that what the GSUSA does is relevant to what the BSA does, ok, the GSUSA does not kick out gay leaders nor, as I understand it, do they interpret their own "oath"s reference to God so as to necessarily exclude atheists. FOG and anyone else, you signing up for all that?

[purcelce 11]

BSA470Firstaider wrote

"...well at this point I feel like since I'm a youth I might as well go back with all the other youth who don't care because each and everytime a "kid" or a "MTV junkie" or a "punk" try's to join a discussion they become bashed, and brutalized...Well maybe it's my fault for caring to much, or maybe it's scouter.com's for not having a special youth section where we can be alone I don't know but this is getting sadder by the day."

 

Hold on there! You stated that you joined this discussion and group and got bashed and brutalized because you are a youth? If this correct, you brought this on yourself. There are quite a few youth on these boards that haven't been "bashed, and brutalized" by us old guys.

 

 

Now on to the orginal post.

 

I don't have a problem with women in BSA. I'll steal BW's words. They say it best.... "It is not the gender of the person that makes them a good leader of the scouting program, but the character they bring with them that matters."

 

 

 

 

[fotoscout 15]

Sturgen,

 

I am now quite certain that you have never, ever met my mom. And, it is most likely that you have also never been in the same state with her!

 

[Sturgen 10]

True, chances are that I have never met your mother, however chances are that if she has lived for any length of time in any of the states on either the east or west coast, or ever visited Washington (not the District of Columbia) or Idaho, then the two of us have inhabited the same state at one time or another. Either way, I fail to see your point; outside of perhaps that you are of the opinion that she is an excellent Scouter...

[scoutmom 10]

I want to commend the posters to this thread, who, with very few exceptions, stated their opinions and did not resort to personal insults. I asked for your opinions and I have received them. I am happy to see that the majority of the responses have a positive attitide regarding female Scouters. I also agree with Bob White that gender isn't what makes a good leader. Not every woman will make a good Scout Leader, I acknowledge that, but please remember, being a male doesn't automatically qualify you for the job, either. Each individual should be judged on their own merits. Thank you all for your participation and (for the most part) keeping this a civil discussion.

[Region 7 Voyageur 10]

Since becoming active in scouting again in 1998 after about 20 years away I have seen many changes from the scouting I knew as a boy. The involvement of women in the boy scout program is one of them. The leadership, skills, attitute and dedication that I have observed of women scouters puts many male leaders to shame.

 

My Troop Guide in Wood Badge was a lady and one of the best mentors that I have ever had.

 

I have never heard a female scouter lamenting about how things were better in scouting when she was a youth.

 

I once thought that women would not make the best choice for Scoutmasters. What I have seen has changed my mind. I have seen some poor examples of leaders that are male but I have not yet seen a female scouter that has taken involvement in scouting seriously that is anything but what Baden Powell envisioned in a leader.

 

 

Dave

[Fat Old Guy 11]

New Jersey Dude asked, "But for those who do think that what the GSUSA does is relevant to what the BSA does,"

 

It is in that there has never been a public hue and cry over GSUSA's discriminatory practices.

 

R7Voyager said, "I have never heard a female scouter lamenting about how things were better in scouting when she was a youth."

 

The reason for that is that they weren't involved in Scouting as a youth. I do hear Girl Scout leaders complaining about how their program has changed.

[ScouterPaul 11]

FScouter,

The Guide to Safe Scouting states the following:

"One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths." It doesn't state in view of other youths. If I am truly wrong in my understanding I would like to know. I came up as Scouter throught the Cub Scout ranks and every training course that I took emphasised the need for two adults at all times.

 

YIS

Paul

[FScouter 24]

I too would emphasize having more than one adult. Three or four would be better still. Its a big job to work with a group of boys without other adults to help. But one adult with two or more Scouts does not violate BSA rules, except on trips or outings.

 

One-on-one contact is never permitted. A personal conference such as a Scoutmaster conference must be done in view of others. I dont believe there has been any change in the rules. The Guide to Safe Scouting seems quite clear about this and Im not aware of any other publication that states a requirement for two adults other than for trips and outings.

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths."

 

A strict reading of this would require at least two adults AND at least two youth as observers. Not very practical.

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

I have touched on this before, but what if I could produce evidence that B-P himself invited women to become scoutmasters? Would that make a difference to anyone?

[evmori 11]

Don't know if it would make a difference but I'd like to see it!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Fat Old Guy 11]

OGE, no.

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

Use this link

 

http://www.chsscout.net/rescenter/video/index.shtml#section4

 

go to number 2 in the list, "Address to Scoutmasters and Commissioners"

 

around the 1:56 to 1:58 portion of the recording,B-P calls on "... young men and even young women to come forward as scoutmasters, there is work for all,and good work..."

 

If the founder of the organization invited women to be scoutmasters, on what basis would you exclude them?