what makes your Venturing Crew different from a troop?

[Lisabob 13]

OK I mean this in the most open-minded spirit of curiousity and discovery. (So don't go blasting me for asking this...)

 

Sea Scouting aside, which clearly has a different focus, I'd like to know what are some of the things those of you involved with crews have done, that a troop COULD NOT do with their older scouts in the "high adventure" mode. I mean in terms of activities - not membership.

 

Is there really a difference in the nature of the activities? Or is it only the frequency of those "high adventure" activities? Or is it just that the activities are more or less the same but with a crew you can skip some or all of the hoopla of weekly troop meetings?

 

I admit I'm not as well educated about Crews as I might like to be. But when I hear about venturing what I tend to hear is that a) they can have girls and older youth as members and b) they have a much broader potential focus. (Occasionally someone throws in some info about the different awards that may be earned) But this doesn't tell me what crews DO, that makes them truly different from troops. I suspect the same is true of a lot of ASMs/SMs who appear to be resistant to the program, particularly as it applies to troop-aged boys.

 

Lisa'bob

[emb021 16]

Ok, let me take a stab (background info, I was a Boy Scout and briefly an Explorer as a youth. Was an ASM for years, and an Associate Advisor in an Explorer Post which became a Venturing Crew).

 

First off, please review the methods of Boy Scouting and Venturing. Please note that they are NOT the same.

 

The difference in Boy Scouting and Venturing is not so much in terms of 'Venturing can do X that Boy Scouts can't". Instead its a little more fundamental.

 

The BS program is well laid out. ALL troops should be following it. Meetings are fairly structured and are focused around helping the boys advance toward First Class and prepare them for that month's camping trip. The camping trips build off what was covering at meetings.

 

A BIG part of what a troop does is help boys advance. A lot of their program time is geared toward getting the boys to First Class. From that point on, leadership & merit badges gets the boys to Eagle. Boys not advancing is not good. Troops not advancing boys is not good. this is how troops are measured.

 

We've talking about how Venturing Crews will pick a specialty. This is important and too often misunderstood. By having a specialty, the Crew has a theme that they focus on. It's not an exclusive focus (nothing stops a high adventure crew from doing a bowling night event). But there is NO such thing as a Boy Scout troop with a specialty, really. Yes, a troop may be known as a "high adventure troop" in their area, but doing high adventure can NOT interfere with them providing the boy scout program and making sure their kids are moving to First Class and then on to Eagle. If you look at such 'high adventure troops', what you will find is troops that allow their old boys (ie, the ones who are beyond working toward First Class) to go off and doing neat high adventure trips. But only AFTER they have been working to help the younger kids advance, etc.

 

With their specialty, crews build their program around it. Meeting programs tie in with it, which leads to their non-meeting activities. Advancement is NOT important. Yes, there is Venturing advancement, but a Crew is NOT expected to build their program around making sure all the crew is advancing (they can if they want to, but its not a requirement or expectation).

 

Now, a troop might try out some of the things that Venturing crew do, but they would do so for maybe a month. they are NOT going to build their year-round program around a specialty, and they are not going to focus on this specialty at the expense of doing the Boy Scout Program.

 

Now, when I was involved with a Venturing Crew, the crew I was in is a Historical Reneactment Crew, focusing on the Seminole Wars and early Florida History. So our meetings were focused on that topic: maybe working on our outfits or gear, having guest speakers, etc. Our trips would be trips to museums, going to weekend re-enactments. If we were a Boy Scout troop, how could we be doing this AND doing the Boy Scout program. Just doesn't work.

 

This all makes for Venturing to be a more flexible program. Thus, a youth does not just 'join a Venturing Crew'. They join a crew that has the program that THEY want. If their church has a religious-life Crew and that's what they want, they join that. If their is a re-anactment crew, maybe that. Or an Indian Lore Crew or a high adventure crew or a patch trading crew or a role playing game crew or a youth service crew.

 

 

[CNYScouter 46]

 

In talking just about activities, off the top of my head, there are a least 3 activities that Venturing Crews can do that Troops can not:

 

Hunting

Snowmobiling

Shooting Handguns

 

The one of the big differences in the Scouting programs was explained to me in this simplified manner (maybe oversimplified):

Cubs be shown how to do something and try to do it.

Scouts be shown how to do something and master it.

Venturing - be shown how to do something, master it and teach it to someone else.

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Good stuff so far, another consideratin is that a Boy Scout troop, well actually Boy Scouts, has the Outdoors as a method. In Venturing there are 5 distinct areas. Sea Scouts, Religious Life, Arts and Hobbies, Sports and Outdoors.

 

Advancement as is known in the Boy Scout program does not exist. Advancement is not a method of Venturing. Each of the areas have requirements to earn a "Bronze" in that area and there are recognitions above the Bronze such as Ranger in Outdoors, Trust in Religious Life and Quest in Sports. After earning a Bronze, the Venturer may earn a Gold and then Silver (Girl Scouts love this as many have already earned SIlver and Gold awards). However, as much as these recognitions may develop the Venturer, advancement is not a method of Venturing.

 

Boy Scouts Uses these Methods

Patrol Method

Adult Association

Leadership

Scouting Ideals

Outdoors

Advancement

Personal Growth

Uniform

 

Venturing Uses these Methods

Group Activities

Adult Association

Leadership

Scouting Ideals

High Adventure

Recognition

Teaching Others

Uniform optional

 

They are mighty similar, then again, there are huge differences in approaches. If someone tells you that Venturing is so much better than Boy Scouts because they have girls and can shoot .357 magnums, they are missing the whole point. A Cub Pack has a Cubmaster as its top adult leader, a Boy Scout Troop has a Scoutmaster as its top adult leader, a Venturing Crew has an Advisor as its top adult leader as there is no Master over the Crew. There is a President, not an SPL, there are Vice-Presidents of Administration and of Program rather than ASPLs and then a secretary and treasurer, all elected by the Crew. The program is dependent on the youth. You could have an Outdoor crew over the years change to Religious Life as its membership shifts, thats ok. In Boy Scouts its really tought to advance to far without camping but the Arts and Hobbies, Relgious Life and Sports areas dont require any camping. I hesitate to comment on Sea Scouts and camping as I may need a ride on a boat some day.

 

And there is tremoundous confusion over what this all means. I use as an example and I apologize ahead of time if I offend anyone, especially Beavah because of what I am about to say. as I was reading this thread and the one that caused this thread (I think) I saw that Beavah made the following observations about Venturing:

 

 

I think dat's partly because Venturers really don't have a clue yet about their own program, eh? Lisa'bob has a good point when she calls 'em idiosyncratic.

 

Venturin' is a bit of a mishmash, eh? It's hard to tell anyone outside what the program focus is exactly

 

Then he finishes by saying:

 

But a full handed-salute to yeh for tryin' to educate. I've been a commish for two crews and an AA, and I still am in need of educatin'.

 

So why do we have a very dedicated scouter being a Commissioner of two crews and an Associate Advisor of another if he acknowledges he is need of an education? I respect Beavah although I dont always agree with him but I do get the sense he is a youth first kind of guy. If he doesnt get the Program, what needs to be fixed so he will?

And what of those with less zest for the program than Beavah, how do we educate them?

Then again Venturing is 8 years old. I wonder in the 1910's how many troops folded and sprang up and folded as the public learned about Boy Scouts and what it was and how much it took to run a troop and if Venturing is following the same path.

 

In a thread I didnt understand a concern a fellow poster had with the age ranges because its an issue I havent faced, is Venturing so new it needs seasoning so we can all appreciate its aspects?

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, emb021 has it when he says it's not about what activities you can do, it's more fundamental.

 

The few successful crews I've seen have a very different "feel" than a troop. More of a high school feel than a troop. Everyone wearin' a fun T-shirt they made after their last trip, but not a uniform. Gettin' together just for fun, informally, rather than a regular weekly meeting. Periods of relative inactivity, and periods of intense focus and effort. It's a much more "teen-like kid feel" and can be a much better fit for a teen who's gotten tired of/too sophisticated for all the adult hoop-jumpin stuff in Boy Scoutin'.

 

Da problem is da focus thing. Venturin' is hard to market as a program because it's all over the place. Unlike Boy Scoutin' or Sea Scoutin', it doesn't have a well-defined, recognized brand image. It's a catch-all youth club kind of structure - sports, outdoors, ministry, whatever.

 

But "catch all youth club" is just a clique of friends, it doesn't attract new members, because new members come to things where there are specifics. New members look for "what are you/what do you do?" So while Venturing itself is a catch-all umbrella program, a Venturing Crew to be successful really does need to have a much tighter focus, which defines who they are and how they sell themselves. Crews that "stay loose" or morph a lot don't last.

 

For Scoutin' it's a bit weird. Every other program we run comes with its own focus. And for an old Commish who's been around the block, it's weirder, eh? I can get Sea Scouts or a SCUBA or Climbing or "high adventure" crew, eh? The BSA is great resource for outdoor programming, and has a lot of materials and contacts. I can even get a Community Service crew. But I don't get youth ministry; outside of LDS, what resources can I as a BSA representative help to provide a youth ministry program? You get insurance, but churches have that already. But I've got no youth ministry program aids to give for various denominations, no youth ministry training to offer. Yah, and if you're other than mainline Protestant, I have even less of a clue, eh?

 

Same with sports, or Arts & Hobbies, eh? I don't know how to support such a unit. Da BSA has no training or resources to provide. No sports fields, no coaching clinics, no pool of referees. I'd be completely lost tryin' to support an Arts & Hobbies group. I love model trains, and there is a local club 'round these parts, but why would they want to be a, or charter a Crew? They wouldn't get anything, and "Venturing" doesn't say "model trains!" in anyone's mind. If yer lookin' for a local model train club, you don't Google Venturing.

 

So Yah, OGE, no offense taken. I really am kinda clueless about how to help make all the aspects of the Venturing cornucopia work. There's no one program here, and so far most of the local crews have tended to form around individual personalities, and usually don't last longer than that personality is around. Lots of great potential, I think, but it needs some tighter focus, some more materials, and some exemplars to copy.

 

But I came up through Boy Scouts, eh? It could be that I'm just an old fuddy-duddy lookin' for A Program.

 

 

 

[emb021 16]

"I think dat's partly because Venturers really don't have a clue yet about their own program, eh? Lisa'bob has a good point when she calls 'em idiosyncratic. "

 

Well, I have to disagree with that assesment. Venturing is a continuation of the Explorer program and elements which date back to the 1930s.

 

In the late 1940s, National started to see the emergence of Explorer Scout Posts focusing on a particular area, like archaeology.

 

In the 1950s, a California businessman named William Spurgeon had a lot of success in establishing career-oriented Posts. The trend toward specialization in something became a big trend in Explorers Nationally.

 

Into the 1960s and 70s this continued until the idea was that every post was expected to clearly declare what their specialty was. Career Explorer Posts became a major part. Eventually in the 1980s and 90s, Posts were loosly organized into one of several 'clusters', most of them careers (Law Enforcement, Engineering, etc), but also Outdoors, etc.

 

The problem is that in the 1980s and 90s, most scouters thought of Explorers as 'that career oriented program over there'. This overshadowed the many 'traditional' Explorer posts that existed out there like High Adventure, Indian Lore, Youth Ministries, etc. But these sort of Posts DID exist, and were increasing in numbers. This is why when the 1998 split of Exploring into Ventuirng and LFL/Exploring occured that in some councils you were left with many healthy Venturing Crews, but in other councils Venturing was non-existant.

 

I remember after the split spending a LOT of time on-line explaining to scouters about what Venturing is. As they had NO clue about what pre-1998 Exploring was REALLY about (ie, it was more then just career stuff), explaining Venturing was tough. I remember one poster just not understanding the concept of Crews having a speciality ("but troops don't do that!").

 

However, I do have to agree with Beavah about the lack of resources. In the 1990s National created a series of about 20-30 Explorer Program Helps for a wide range of Posts. While most of them were aimed at careers, there WERE ones aimed at others like High Adventure, Sports, Youth Ministries, and the like. Sadly, after the 1998 split, all of these resources which SHOULD have been continued under Venturing were dropped. I've even told those at National that they need to bring these back into print (atleast on CD or on-line) and create more for the many 'other' kind of Crews out there. Sadly, they don't see the value in this.

 

 

 

[purcelce 11]

Emb has hit the nail on the head.

 

Our Crew is different becuase we do not think like a Boy Scout troop. Kids like the idea of not having weekly meetings, mixing up activities from weekenders to day trips. Let the kids run the program.

 

Cary P

Crew 805 Advisor

[Eamonn 61]

I'm unsure if I can or will answer the question.

As I see it.

A lot of the adults in Venturing don't really know enough about what it is or could be.

We have the Units that seem to be very much like a youth club. Nothing wrong with that in my book. But at times they seem to be like the scene from the Disney Jungle Book movie where the vultures are on a tree asking each other:

"What shall we do?"

"I don't know - What do you want to do?"

"I don't know". (They sound very much like four Lad's from Liverpool).

After a while with no real focus and no real plan they become bored and don't do anything.

Also groups like this don't do a very good job of accepting or recruiting new members. So they seem to fall apart after a fairly short time.

We have the Units that were put together to help meet goals.

A group of older Boy Scouts who I think might be better off and we would serve them better by allowing them to remain in the Troop in a Venture Patrol.

I do know that a lot of SM's feel that these older Boy Scouts should be doing what they can to help train the younger Scouts.

However when I look at what we in our area are offering older Boy Scouts, it isn't that good. The older Scouts for various reasons don't attend that many Troop meetings and this upsets the Scoutmasters, with mixed age Patrols it makes planning Patrol activities very hard. Some local Troops have formed Eagle Patrols that are for the Scouts who have earned Eagle Scout rank.

Sadly when I visited these Troops the Eagle Patrol really had nothing to do and stood around trying to amuse themselves, which disrupted the Troop meeting and the adult leaders.

Kinda like having a Den Chief. Great to have if you give or find him something worth while to do with the younger Lads, but a real pain when he finds his own something to do.

While I never had any dealings with the Exploring program either as it was or as it is!! There is it seems to me a line which is at hard at times to see as to if a Venturing Crew should be an Exploring Post or not?

A fellow I know was the Adult Leader of a Exploring Post which done a lot of stuff with radios, when Venturing came along he became the Advisor of a Crew which does a lot of stuff with radios. He has served on both the National Exploring Committee and the National Venturing Committee. (He works for NASA)

The youth that join that Crew know that they are joining a Crew that does a lot of stuff with radios. The Crew has been up and running for a good many years and seems to meet the needs of the youth that join.

Back when I was serving at the District and Council level, I was trying very hard to start new Venturing Crews.

One problem I kept running into when I met with organizations who I was hoping would come on board as CO's was that I wasn't bringing very much to the table. -I didn't have a very clear outline as to what the youth who would join would do.

That and it seemed a lot of organizations didn't need the BSA to help them (the organization) provide a program as they had one in place. I talked with local Volunteer Fire Companies, they have a Junior Fireman program, I talked with the Wild Turkey organization, they have a youth program, I talked with my church they have a Pack a Troop and a Youth Group, they almost came on board but the age group didn't work.

At the risk of sounding like an old fuddy-duddy, I think the youth members like the idea of knowing what they are signing up for and what they are in for.

Let the youth who are interested in doing whatever it is they are interested in doing follow that path, it might be Radios or fly fishing.

We have way too many small Crews who claim to be High Adventure and are just not delivering the goods.

In our District we have one Crew where all the members are Boy Scouts and the only thing they do is help out at Camporees, when the Lad leaves the Troop he leaves the Crew.

I was a little disappointed that the National Flag Ship this year isn't a coed Ship. I think a good mix of male and female youth is the mark of a good Venturing program. Yes I know that Crews don't have to be coed.

Maybe what I'm trying to say is that I'd be happier if Crews were more specialized.

Boy Scouts has merit badges that cover just about any and every interest that a Lad might want to take a look at, but the older youth really don't have the time to be "Window Shopping" a good many have already decided what sort of activities they like and don't like.

If and when we stop thinking of Venturers and Venturing as being an older Boy Scout program, we will really do a better job of serving the youth and meeting their needs.

I'm OK with a group of older youth members who want to follow just about anything that they find interesting.

I'm fully aware how hard it can be to find a CO that wants to charter a group.

Maybe the natural scheme of things will be that Crews will spring up and be around for a while and then die, while another one springs up and is around for a while?

As long as we have Crews that hang on to the shirt tails of Boy Scout Troops, finding the difference is going to be tough.

Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[Crew21_Adv 25]

Lisa,

 

Greetings!

 

Without diving to far into the semantics, here is my opinion about how Venturing differs from traditional Scouting.

 

My crew has been to the pistol range, horse back trail riding, and COPES course. We've also been to a "Who Dunnit" theater and many other excursions.

 

Annually to reward them for their work and have fun. We go to a Gokarting. Go-karting is listed as a restricted item for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, but does not make mention of the restriction at the Crew level. The parents and youth are briefed on safety and wear the appropriate clothing and helmets. Next Summer we are planning White Water Rafting.

 

While our Venturers are enthusiastic. The advisors have to review what our limits are with the Age Appropriate Guidelines and the Guide to Safe Scouting. We find the small risk of go-carting and trail riding to fall within safe parameters of the G2SS; while we constantly explain that paint ball courses and participating in the youth rodeo are just too far outside of the safety zone.

 

Just like in the G2SS, prohibiting technical tree climbing appears to be a recent entry. Some Troops and Crews have probably attempted it, until BSA risk assessment decided it was too dangerous (for now). I recently watched a video of canyoning at a recreational office.(Imagine your local water park, except these are actually mountains and canyons) A relatively new sport with outdoor enthusiast, I don't see it prohibited by the G2SS (yet). I don't even plan on consulting my fellow advisors, lest showing it to the crew, because I expect the adults would cringe thinking of potential risk of injuries (even with the participants wearing safety gear).

 

Now, If I can also add an opinion regarding Venturing Program Helps. Emb021, made a great reference to a 90's edition of Explorer Program Helps. Comparing the Explorer Program Helps and our current Venturing Leaders Manual.

 

The Venturing Leaders Manual has many items similar to Troop Program Features or the annual Cub Scout Program Helps. Games, Ethical Controversies, Outdoor Plans, etc.

But it is divided into Chapters, rather than weekly and monthly themes. The Venturing Leaders Manual seems to have recommended themes to be used by Venturing Crew Officers. During its next revision, if Venturing Leaders Manual could be divided into monthly themes like its companion literature Troop Program Features.

 

I am not recommending adding or taking away from the manual, just restructuring. I truly believe a weekly/monthly style revision would enhance a Crews' creativity and program planning.

 

Thanks for allowing me to rank.. Cheers everyone!

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[emb021 16]

"A lot of the adults in Venturing don't really know enough about what it is or could be. "

 

Too true. And what is said is that there are a LOT of resources out there to help. Materials on the National site, the USScouting Service site, some great classes at Philmont, etc.

 

"We have the Units that seem to be very much like a youth club."

 

True. And this can usually be solved by having a SPECIALITY. This gives the crew a goal and theme to what they do. It also helps them in recruiting. They are just a "Venturing Crew", but a "Venturing Crew that does high adventure stuff" or a "Venturing Crew that does Indian Lore", etc.

 

"Now, If I can also add an opinion regarding Venturing Program Helps. Emb021, made a great reference to a 90's edition of Explorer Program Helps. Comparing the Explorer Program Helps and our current Venturing Leaders Manual. "

 

The current Venturing Leaders Manual is actually a combination of 3 works. they took the previous Explorer Leaders Manual, did some updates to Venturing and addded in the Outdoor Post Program Helps. In a later reprint they added the Ethical Controversies stuff.

 

Personally, I think they need to pull out all that Outdoor stuff from the VLM and put it in a separate "Venturing Program Helps". Not all crews do outdoor stuff, and its a waste for them. And as someone else has pointed out, what if your crew is a Sports crew, or youth ministries, or arts & hobbies? Nothing for them.

 

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

I'll admit to not being the brightest light on the Christmas tree.

Maybe just maybe? I'm not where I should be?

I however like to think that I'm a fairly good Scouter.

I like kids, I enjoy spending time with young people and over the years have devoted a lot of time, energy and some cash to become good at being a Scouter.

While there are some Boy Scout Troops that do a wonderful job of understanding and retaining older Scouts. A good many don't.

When I read in this forum of older Scouts being the 14 and 15 year old Scouts, it seems to me that something somewhere has gone wrong.

Because I'm kinda lazy and because I have spent the last 31 years being a run of the mill everyday Scouter, I really don't have any special skills.

Sure I'm a RD and know a lot about English History. But when it comes to a real skill that would attract older youth to come along and join in with me -I just don't cut the mustard.

Over the past 30 years I have done a lot of different activities, I have taken Scouts hiking, back packing, camping, canoeing, kayaking, rappelling, rock climbing, caving. I enjoy camping with Scouts and love pioneering, messing around with ropes. I am bright enough to know that all of these activities were part of the game which hopefully pass on to the participants skills they didn't realize were being passed on.

When I noticed that we (Scouting) seemed to be losing a lot of really nice kids for lots of different reasons I wanted to do something about it.

I read most of the material that is out there on Venturing and I was confused. Hey -I'm a Boy Scouter!!

I took the Training's.

What a waste of my time!!

I wanted to come away with knowing how to run a Venture Crew. I came away with an update on Ages and Stages.

"You need to go to Powder Horn" I was told.

"It's great you get to do all this fun stuff"

But I've done all that fun stuff!!

"But you'll learn all the local resources"

But I can get that from the yellow pages or on line.

"But you'll have so much fun!!"

I'm all for fun but spending time and money to go play with a bunch of adults? No thank you.

I want a program I can understand.

I don't care what options you put in it.

I really don't want some mismash rehashed badly thought out left over 1950's program that just doesn't seem to meet my needs or the needs of the youth I want to serve.

I would like to see a program that everyone can understand and do something to help grow. I'm sad that Councils, Scout Executives and DE's see Venturing as a nice thing to help show membership growth, but are not providing any real support or service. I think in part because they don't understand the mismash that we have. If one tenth of the hard work and effort that is put into providing services for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts were to be put into Venturing, maybe just maybe the hype about it being the fastest growing program would ring true.

I opted to become a Sea Scouter, not because I'm that great with boats or sailing, but because I could understand the program.

I can help our youth leaders plan and carry out what they want to do, because I understand where we are trying to get to.

Yes we do at times look at some of what is in Venturing and do take what we need or what we want to do. Not everything we do is Sea Scouting, but when we meet the week after a hike or going caving we are back to being Sea Scouts and I'm back with a program that is clearly defined and easy to follow.

While I'm out of my tree.

I also happen to think that a lot of the things that the "Powers That Be" say our youth don't want or need is a load of balderdash. The youth I serve like working toward a clearly defined goal, they want to work on advancement, they are happy with their uniforms, they enjoy the ceremonial parts. Sure they also enjoy the all night bowling, dances, laying on a beach and doing nothing. But I'm not clever enough to come up with a program that is all about going bowling, dances and lazing on a beach, all of that is just a by-product of what we are about.

Eamonn.

[Crew21_Adv 25]

Lisa and Fellow Venturers,

 

Greetings!

 

I guess like Emb021 and I recommended. National BSA and the Venturing Division should really consider releasing Venturing Program Helps for all five of the specialties. (Most of the info is already out there it seems to me, just not structured in a meeting plan.)

 

But bottom line, my Troop's PLC can appreciate a written plan from the program features, and use what they desire from it. But my older Venturing Crew Officers have a difficult time during our Crew Officers Meeting, writing a meeting plan (even if there are some vague program examples in the Venturing Leaders Manual). A Venturing Program Features/Program Helps would help stir their creativity and planning.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[emb021 16]

I guess what I need to do is pull out my Explorer Program Helps that would be relavent, and scan them:

 

Explorers with Disabilities Program Helps

Exploring High Adventure Guide

Sports Exploring Program Helps

Explorer Program Helps for Youth Groups of all Faiths

 

Problem will be finding a place to get them on-line. Have to see if the USScouting Service Project people will post them.

 

I REALLY wish the PTC Venturing training groups would work to expand/update these, especially the Sports and Religious Life ones, because they DO have training courses for those areas...

 

And maybe we can get some kind of grass roots effort going to put something together for arts & hobbies.

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Lisa and all,

 

There are two other areas of Venturing we've not yet touched on:

 

Venturing can be co-educational. More than 1-2 of our Council VOA events have turned into all-night mixers. The youth enjoy bowling, climbing walls, pizza parties, and so on. They enjoy that the pressure of finding boyfriends/girlfriends is lowered ... because the leader (chaperone) ratio is so high.

 

Venturing Crews seem to flex far easier to the rigors of the high school academic schedule? Home game for the football or basketball team? Marching and pep band playing? Guess what? The youth schedule as they should ... graded stuff comes first (band is curricular here)

 

My two cents in this conversation

[Beavah 205]

I recently watched a video of canyoning at a recreational office.(Imagine your local water park, except these are actually mountains and canyons) A relatively new sport with outdoor enthusiast, I don't see it prohibited by the G2SS (yet). I don't even plan on consulting my fellow advisors, lest showing it to the crew, because I expect the adults would cringe thinking of potential risk of injuries (even with the participants wearing safety gear).

 

Nah. Canyoneering is a grand adventure, and can be plenty safe. Probably safer than the kids ridin' their bikes to school, eh? Share opportunities with da young people, don't hide them. I think there was even a piece on canyoneering in a Scouting Magazine or Boy's Life in the last year. If the kids see an exciting opportunity that's outside of your comfort zone as an advisor, that's what outfitters and consultants are for, eh? Don't hold 'em back.

 

(Paintball is also safer than ridin' a bike to school or goin' whitewater rafting or a whole bunch of other stuff we do in scoutin'. It's just not politically correct. )