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Quick yes or no: Can a troop switch to a different council?

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The term modify may be too strong a word. The LDS follows all of the methods and aims of Scouting but only changes the limits the age groups in their units. They still have the same advancement regulations, and use to same handbooks and participate in district, council and national events. They do not camp on Sunday or have women as Cubmasters, Scoutmasters, Coaches or Advisors. Women do not go camping with Scouts. All this changes have to do with tenets of their faith and under the prevue of the CO. In all other ways they are just like the rest of the Scouting world, some good units and leaders, some bad and some so-so.

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Bob White whines, "The BSA has designed a modified program for the LDS Church, and if you are a leader in an LDS unit then that is the way you should deliver the program."


Doesn't a whine have to have a complaint at its core? All the whiners I met were fairly consistent at whining. They didn't just whine about one thing the whined about everything and it was all very self-centered.


Here are some examples that I have heard over the months that would be classified as whining...

:( I think the uniform stinks:(

:( I think the handbook stinks:(

:( I don't like the parents:(

:( I don't like the New Scout Patrol:(

:( I don't like the shoulder loop colors:(

:( I don't like the First Class Emphasis :(

:( The Eagle Rank is too easy :(


Now that is some big time Major League whining. Several posters on this forum...well, actually, a few posters on this forum......Well, actually, just YOU talk like that. On the plus side you do it more and better than anyone I have ever read.


You may not ever be right, but I have to admire your consistency.


By the way, many Jewish units do not camp on Friday night. Does it make for shorter campouts? Perhaps. But every Scout promises to perform their Duty to God and to be reverent. Didnt you do that too?


Bob White


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There are special considerations all throughout the program; it isn't exclusive to Mormons. There are special Woodbadge sessions for observant Jews, Muslims, and Christians who may have a religious issue with some specifics. Rather than try to change the experience for everyone, they accomodate these individuals. The Jews' issues center around Sabbath activities and dietary restrictions, the Muslims' issues are dietary and prayer scheduling and many Orthodox are not allowed to wear shorts if I recall correctly. Not all courses have shorts as uniform, but some areas do (did?). Also, the Orthodox and Catholics have requirements for liturgical participation. All these groups (and likely more) are accomodated. We also know that the flag insignia is optional, the Oath is also called the Promise, and the Pledge is not required to be said for religious reasons. Some cannot make oaths and others consider venerating the flag idolatry. Neither of these are because of Mormonism.


Regarding the Mormon Cub program, I believe that until the age of eight (9?), children are not to be involved in activities apart from the parents. This has to do with their notions of childhood and accountability. I'm not exactly sure how the program differs from the standard, but it doesn't seem as much of a stretch when every youth is only able to join at that specific age. All the other differences seem to be within the normal perogatives of any CO. I doubt that any other faith, if it presented similar requirements to the BSA, would be denied similar accomodations.(This message has been edited by Adrianvs)

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"they camp Friday and Saturday"


As I said, that makes for short campouts.


"But every Scout promises to perform their Duty to God and to be reverent."


Fortunately, my God doesn't require me to sit inside of a stuffy building to be "reverent." In fact, the last time that we talked about the issue, he was of the opinion that he's much happier if we're outside marveling at his creation instead of sitting inside of a building singing off-key and listening to someone rant about sin.

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Hey FOG, what religion forces you to sit in a stuffy old building anyway?


As a Roman Catholic I enjoyed two pefectly lovely out door masses during my two weekends of Wood Badge and several other outdoor liturgies during AO, Disrict and Council events. At the 2001 National Jamboree there were several open air religious ceremonies representing several religious sects.


And if singing off key is wrong, most campfires I have attended have been very wrong, joyful, uplifitng, but wrong


And everyone is entitled to grumble and grouse, the question is, what do you do about ?

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Bob, you whine whereas I grumble and grouse. There's a big difference. Whining is usually accompanied by a pout and a stomping of a foot"


12-hours later and that is the best come back you have? No Vulgarity? No fictional story of how BP would have done it in his day? No blaming it on parents? Is everything all right at the FOG house or has the flu got you down?


To say you just grumble and grouse is like saying Michael Jordan just shot basketball a little.


Now it's just not the scouting movement you don't like, you have gripes with the LDS Church, the Catholic Church and Judaism. Next thing you know you will be condemning the NRA, after all they accept members of the KKK.


Is nothing to your liking in this world, or the next?


(No pouts or foot stomping here)

Bob White

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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OGE, "As a Roman Catholic I enjoyed two pefectly lovely out door masses during my two weekends of Wood Badge and several other outdoor liturgies during AO, Disrict and Council events."


Is that where you attend mass on a regular basis?


Bob White said in what he thought was a witty manner, "12-hours later and that is the best come back you have?"


This may be a surprise to you but some of us don't monitor this forum 24/7, we have other things going on in our lives and some of these things have nothing to do with Scouting.


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