dsteele 20 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 In another thread, Scoutleader questioned me on an implication I made that professionals transferring every three years is expected. I didn't mean to imply that, but I can understand why it was inferred. I'd like to clarify and maybe shed some light. For those that would like to see the reference, I'm going to quote from the topic "Wood Badge - A secret?" started by Eamonn. Here's the quote that inspired this thread (edited for brevity) "I know we're way off thread, DS, but you've peaked my curiosity. Your post implies that transfers every three years are expected. I nmy council, we've had some in place for 10-15 years . . . Their titles change from time to time, but from where I stand, they are still doing the same things . . . there have been some young whippersnappers come in with college diplomas still dripping with in, but they last maybe a year and were gone." Sctleader, I hope I didn't leave out parts of your question that you feel are important. If I did, please let me know and I'll attempt to answer them. Now I'm talking to everyone interested in the answers (as I see them.) Let's go to the three year part . . . 3 years is the minimum tenure requirement for all professional positions except Scout Executive. For a Scout Executive, it is five years. There are rare exceptions, but those are the stated minimums. That gives the professional time to learn the ropes in the assignment, make some changes, and learn from mistakes/live with successes (they're not necessarily opposites.) However, nothing says they have to move at the end of their minimum three years. Professionals can also quit on 30 days written notice, be fired, etc. I'll address that later. For example, I came to my present council as the Assistant Scout Executive. My boss (Scout Executive) and I have a deal that I will stay here for three years, minimum. Actually, there were extenuating circumstances and if I choose, I can leave before then, but that's a rare instance and does not apply to my example. Let's say that I decide that I'm happy to be this council's assistant scout executive and don't want to move, ever. There are a variety of reasons that I might not want to move -- kid in school, wife has a great job or is unwilling to move, love the area and have ties to it, etc., etc., etc. As long as my performance pleased the Scout Executive and the Executive board, I could stay. I would have to live with the fact that I've risen up the "corporate ladder" as far as I'm ever going to and that sooner or later my annual pay increase would be tied to the BSA salary chart adjustments and not my performance, but I could stay. Some professionals choose to stay in their current home towns and their current positions and serve honorably and well for many, many years. I love my current council, Scout Executive, home, and job . . . but I really want to be a scout executive. The rules are clear -- you can't become the scout executive of a council you're currently serving. This allows a couple of things -- a new scout executive will come into his/her position with new ideas and that my scout executive doesn't have to worry about me undermining him in an attempt to take his position and is free to teach me as much as he possibly can on my path (hopefully) to scout executive. So, yeah, I want to move as close to the three year mark as I can. If it takes me a year or two after the minimum to find a council I like in an area I like, so be it . . . but I'm one (so is my wife) that is willing to move. Now let me go to the other side of it. The changing of titles . . . When I started in this profession, I was in a 1/2 urban and heavily african american area and 1/2 rural and primarily caucasian area. In my 18 months tenure there, I really wanted to make an impact on the inner-city. I had some impact, but the fact is that I'm not african american and couldn't garner the trust of what I felt (and so did the council leadership) was the most important impact area of the distrcit. The rural part sang, the inner city part struggled. After 18 months, the district had achieved quality district in the first time in it's history, but I wasn't about to spend 18 more months running on ice. I went to the scout executive and explained my problems and requested to be moved the the suburban district in the council. So, I was then transferred to another district. Why? It was a better fit for the council and for me. The council hired an african american to serve my "old" district and he led them for 8 years (with a variety of titles, but I'll get to that in a moment) and they achieved quality district for the next 8 consecutive years. They missed it the year he left to become a Field Director in another council. I served for 8 years in my "new" district and the district achieved quality every one of those 8 consecutive years. The minimum 3 years tenure was not broken when I moved there as a district executive after 18 months in my old district . . . because I was still a district executive. At 36 months (three years) I became a Senior District Executive. Essentially the same job, but in addition to my DE duties, I was given some council assignments as well as a pay increase and an increase in classification. As far as my district/unit folks knew, I was still doing the same thing, but with a new patch on my shoulder. From those positions, if the pro is doing the job right, you really don't see a difference. A couple of years later, under a new scout executive, it was coming near time for me to move. I really didn't want to move, but had just gotten married and wanted a promotion. So, with 6 months to go on my "minimum" tenure, he offered to make me a senior district executive, multiple person. It was a horrible title which has now been replaced by district director. I took it. As far as my district/unit folks knew, it was just a change of title and I was still doing the same things. Actually, it meant I was suddenly the boss of the new DE in a neighboring district and his "numbers" and mine became my job standard. If he dropped a ball, I had to pick it up or suffer the consequences. I didn't have to move and had my eye on hopefully someday becomming the finance director for the council. The Scout Executive wanted that for me, too. After another not quite three years, the finance director had been on a couple of scout executive interviews (which was the only position he would consider moving to attain,) and not getting the job, he decided he would stay in his current position until his daughter graduated from High School. The Scout Executive wanted me to stick around and the council was doing well financially, so he made me a District Director and part of the management cabinet of the council. My wife was happy with her teaching job and I was happy with the area and really didn't want to uproot and move. The SE and I knew that my taking the promotion would tie me to the area for another three years (which I didn't want. Three years sounded like a long time to me -- it meant that I would still have the district as my primary responsibility for year #7 to #10. We agreed that, if the finance director was still there when I hit year #8 in the same district that it would be time for both of us to "suck it up" and move. That's what happened. Based on the council's finances and professional needs, there was no more room for me to move up. So my wife and I packed up our bags and moved to another area in the fall of 1998. Moving wasn't as bad as we thought. We made new friends and enjoyed living in a different part of the country. Four (it could have been three) years later, we decided to try another part of the area. I wanted to be an assistant scout executive, and quite frankly, had tired of the "old" area and so had my wife. It was time to go somewhere that reminded us more of home, but different. We tried our hands in Wisconsin and that's where we are now. I started exactly one year ago today as assistant scout executive and love it. But I can't let go of my desire to serve youth as a scout executive. Unless a rule is bent, which largely depends on my current scout executive's willingness to let me go and my wife's willingness to move, we're looking to be here until at least June 1 of 2005. If something happens and my wife and I decide to stay here until I retire in 2031, as long as my performance meets the satisfaction of the scout executive (which will change before 2031, I guarantee it) and the executive board I can stay. But I'll never be scout executive. We make choices. One final quick bit -- a brief dissertation on the district executive who's ink just dried or is drying on his diploma . . . Most of us start that way. Few survive. How does a young DE fresh out of college survive? 30% guidance from his/her BSA supervisor, 30% support from his/her volunteers, and 40% commitment/drive on his/her part. Questions? DS Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 726 Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Thanks for the clarification, DS. 2031??? Whew! Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted June 2, 2003 Author Share Posted June 2, 2003 Scoutldr: You're welcome. Yes, 2031 is my anticipated retirement year. By then I'll be 65 years old and have served in the BSA profession for 43 years. That's a long time as far as I'm concerned. Especially since you can only pay into the BSA retirement fund (currently) for a maxmimum of 35 years. So, if I retire after 35 years of professional service, I'll be 57 years old. That will give me (if they open a window at that time, retirement of some portion of the highest of my last three years salary prior to my retirement. If I wait until my 65th birthday, I'll get 50% of my highest of the last three years employment salary on a monthly basis until I die. Which, for most profressional scouts I've seeen retire is about 60 days. The lack of stress kills them, I guess. Either way, I'll retire in 2023 or 2031. Either way, it seems to be a long way off. Until then, ya'll will have to put up with me in one form or another. I hope that's good news. DS Link to post Share on other sites
matuawarrior 10 Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Hafa Adai DS, Glad you're on the forum. Your posts makes me understand the professional side of the house alot more than I had before. Matua Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted June 2, 2003 Author Share Posted June 2, 2003 Matua: I'm unfamiliar with Hafa Adai. What does it mean? Thanks for the kind words. DS Link to post Share on other sites
matuawarrior 10 Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 DS, Hafa Adai pronounced (ha fa a day) means Hello in Chamorro. Our native language here in Guam used by Chamorros. Matua(This message has been edited by matuawarrior) Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted June 3, 2003 Author Share Posted June 3, 2003 Thanks for the info, Matua. I always appreciate learning a new phrase in an unfamiliar language. It's cool. DS Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 726 Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Been to Guam. Loved the island...hated getting there. Our travel folks put me in the Cliff Hotel up by the Naval Hospital (biggest cucarachas I've ever seen) before I realized I could stay at the Tumon Bay Hilton for the same govt rate! I was so tired I didn't care the first night. Looks like a great place to go Scouting! Link to post Share on other sites
matuawarrior 10 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Scoutldr, The travel time to get here is something to get used to. I've been here most of my life and still hate the flights and the long hours waiting for a flight from Hawaii or Japan. Yep, So you met the local urban wildlife. Scouting was great here in the 40's to mid 80's and started declining. Only the last five years has it started to climb. The dominating units when I became Scoutmaster were the units from the bases. Now its evened out. Matua Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted June 4, 2003 Author Share Posted June 4, 2003 Matua: So just who is your charter partner? Or if you're chartered to the base, who is a non-base charter partner (or CO) in forum-speak? I'm curious. I've toyed with the idea of taking a direct-service SE job -- but have yet to run the idea by my wife, which means I'm not very serious about it. I've heard of guys who have taken such posts. They're good posts, typically, but moving back to the states is a real problem. Neither national nor the local council wants to pay the moving expenses (which is standard) and I've heard that the pro scouters who do move back sell their physical possessions and start over when they return to U.S. soil. I'm not interested in doing that, but . . . I have a friend who became Scout Executive of the Bahamas and the Virgin Islands. I'm the wrong race to be successful there, but I'd almost be willing to try. Except for the fact that Mrs. Steele instists on snow on the ground for at least part of the year. DS Link to post Share on other sites
matuawarrior 10 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 My units are chartered to a local non-profit organization that started out as a family and friends association but now has grown to a more focused youth organization. We are outside of the military bases. Our original charter was with our village middle school for some years before we changed to who we are now. Most base units, as we call them here, are chartered by fraternal or family associations, or the base chapels. Our council is Aloha Council out of Hawaii. I would like to see the name changed to "Greater Oceania Area Council" to show the diversity of the council being the biggest council by area within the BSA. The nearest council to us is Far East Council. I understand the SE up there as some real great perks and a really nice COLA. We had one of there District Leaders come down early last year probing the possibility for their Scout units to attend our Summer Camp. Something about the theirs closing. I didn't have a problem with it. DS, don't cut yourself short because of your race. I've learned it's not the color of your skin that determines if your successful. It's Putting God first, building relationships, and assimilating and understanding the culture that's there, and honest hard work. We've had a DE who used to live in Michigan, transferred out here with Continental Airlines in the mid 80's. He took to the island and has made Guam his home. He and his wife are trainers for our district. He's been a volunteer for more than 30+ years, became a Professional in '97, and is now a volunteer again. All three of his sons are Eagle Scouts. All the local Scouters here learned their skills from him and his wife. He made a great impact here and he's not even from here. I'm pretty sure that you'll be successful where ever you go. Matua (This message has been edited by matuawarrior) Link to post Share on other sites
matuawarrior 10 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 On another note, we've had DE's here who should not have been assigned here. They've left their mark. And it soured the Scouting program. It took the current district leadeship to change things to where there at now. We are slowly growing but it takes trained committed leaders to make a difference. Matua(This message has been edited by matuawarrior) Link to post Share on other sites
Scouter56 10 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 DSTEELE I believe a while back you stated that you would like to be a Scout Executive. I hear that St.Joe Missouri Scout Executive is leaving for a Scout Executive job in Kansas. Might be an opportunity for you as a Scout Exec. Link to post Share on other sites
hops_scout 9 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Red Feather would like that, but he's wanted in Southern Il specifically Okaw Valley Council more!!:);):) Link to post Share on other sites
Scouter56 10 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Dont you already have a Field Director and Asst Scout Exec in Okaw Valley from the midwest council in St. Joe/ Link to post Share on other sites
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