Maybe the OA does not have the meaning it used to

[gwd-scouter]

I am not in the Order of the Arrow, nor will I be. I have been nominated and have had others outside our Troop ask me why I'm not a member yet. Health issues would keep me from truly participating in the Ordeal and I'm not willing to be given special treatment. Just a personal decision and not anything against those that are given special consideration.

 

In any case, both of my sons are members - older son Vigil, younger son Brotherhood - and both have been actively involved holding leader positions in their chapter and lodge and participating on ceremonies teams. The guys just love all the OA stuff. It is because of them, their friends in the order, and other active OA Scouts and Scouters I've met that I've come to know and admire the Order of the Arrow.

 

Unfortunately, over the years, I've never seen much participation in our troop from any other guys once they complete their ordeal at summer camp. Get the patch, get the sash, that's it. It's not just our Troop either. I watch every summer as a large number of boys from our town get called out. They never go to chapter meetings. They are never seen at fellowships. Only a handful of guys help out at our Camporees. I wonder why.

 

Since a Scout only has to be first class and have 15 nights of camping to be eligible for election, and with many troops putting so much emphasis on first class/first year, maybe these guys are just too young to be elected. They think perhaps it's cool to get the patch and a status symbol that they have something others don't, but they don't see the real purpose for the OA or feel the need for cheerful service.

 

Then again, perhaps the fault is with the Scoutmasters that tell these guys how wonderful it is that they are eligible for election without getting into what it is really all about.

 

I'm told that one has to attain Brotherhood in order to seal his membership in the OA. Why is it so many never do?

 

Has it always been this way? Has it always been that only a few do more after their ordeal?

 

[BrentAllen]

Scouts also need to be approved by their SM - not just have the rank and number of nights. I think it would be pretty unlikely for me, as SM, to approve a Scout for OA their first year, as an 11 or 12 year old. They still have much to learn about being a Scout before learning about being an OA member. Just my 2 cents.

[John-in-KC]

Gwd,

 

It's been worse, far, far worse. Trust me.

 

I went through my Ordeal back in 1970. I was the only Scout from my Troop who went to the Brotherhood. Period. These days there is a deliberate emphasis on going to Brotherhood, part of it is the ethics taught in the two ceremonies.

 

I was 13 not quite 13 when I had my Ordeal. In my little world, 2 years in Scouting is the bare minimum. Of course, the other side of my little world is I've not been eligible to vote for 31+years.

 

[Eagle92]

I think that there are a variety of reason for this issue. One is I think that the emphasis on quantity over quality, i.e. the changes in the election process in the mid- late 90s that allowed troop members to vote for all eligible members, has something to do with it. I remember being eligible at 13, and not getting elected. I remember not getting elected at 14. I got in on the third shot at 15, and that usually was the age on the guys in my troop. Nowadays you got 12 year olds getting elected. While they may meet the requirements, sometimes they do not have the maturity. Then again I you can sink you claws into them and get them to joina ceremony, singing, or dance team, In a few years you get awesome results

 

Another problem is that unlike a troop that meets every week, a chapter meets once per month at most and with 4-6 lodge activities a year depending upon the lodge. When you add in all the other stuff outside of scouting, OA can sometimes play second fiddle.

 

Another problem I've seen is too much adult involvement. I admit I'm guilty of it too, but at least I know I am doing too much and am wokringon getting the chapter youth led. Now if I can only keep my officers from moving out of state and/or going to college I wouldn't be in that situation. It is hard when all your active brotherhood members leave and you are left with brand new Ordeal members.

 

A worse problem I've seen is an inactive chapter. I know that went through the Ordeal, I received no info about the chapter. No introductions, no come eat with us, nothing. it was just me and another person form the troop hanging out. When I did find out when they met, and went ot the meeting, no one was there. I'ld rather have adults doing something to keep the chapter alive, than to have it die.

 

OK enough vent

[Twocubdad]

I take the "Scoutmaster's approval" requirement seriously and require OA candidates to meet with me before I'll all their name on the ballot. Basically I'm looking for a commitment to give the OA a fair chance. I ask the boys to follow through with the Ordeal and at least one preferably two significant OA functions in the year following their election.

 

What is interesting to me is that this year only four of 12 eligible Scouts asked to be on the election ballot.

 

I think part of it is that the group of guys who opted out are just lazy. They really don't want to do any more that the very minimum required to "get" Eagle before they skip out.

 

But I also think that the OA doesn't do a good job of promoting itself. In 10 years in the council, I can't think of a single time when the OA was out performing a service where other Scouts could see what they were doing. Back in the day (okay, everyone under age 18 roll you eyes and tune out) our OA chapter ran stuff at district camporees. We ran the milk wagon, selling 1/2-pint cartons of milk to the Scouts (once upon a time, people routinely drank cow's milk with meals) and ran the campfires. The point was that Arrowmen were seen out and about doing things the other Scouts saw as both helpful and as something to aspire to.

 

Locally, the OA generally only does stuff that benefits itself. Everything is built around the two annual lodge fellowships and the regional fellowship. Non-members know nothing about them. They raise a lot of money, which is presumably all spent on the local camps, but to my knowledge has recently been spent on an elaborate ceremonial ring which is secret and known only to the OA.

 

The one point of contact most boys have with the OA is the call out ceremony. Not exactly out best foot forward. In my opinion, the Indian stuff is overdone. Not until you go through the Ordeal and understand the signifiance of the characters does it have any meaning. Most of my Scouts think the guys in costume are just lame. And holy smoke can it go on forever.

 

[EagleBeaver]

In our troop, we'll typically have a dozen or so eligible for OA, but only 2 or 3 get elected. The scouts are quite selective when deciding who gets in. In other troops, there will be a dozen called out. I suppose that has a lot to do with how it is presented to the voting scouts.

In our troop, current OA members will describe the OA and explain the characteristics of a candidate. The scouts seem to take it quite seriously when deciding if Billy or Bobby demonstrate those traits.

 

As far as continuing activity in the OA, I see the same thing. Scouts get in, get the sash, but then have many other activities taking their time and there's not much room to add more meetings, conclaves, and ceremonies. But, the handful that do 'get it' make a very positive impact on the troop.

 

Scout On

[DeanRx]

I was "tapped out" (opps not the PC term anynmore) in the mid 80's. Granted, I haven't been active as an adult and my old lodge has been folded into another lodge back in Nebraska.

 

BUT - from an outsider looking in, OA has seemed to morph into a continuation of rank.

 

Its like the Eagle of camping or something. You camp enough and have the skills, you get in.

 

While I completely understand BSA'a reasoning for taking the "cloak of secrecy" off the ceremonies and putting the lid on any hazing, I do think its harmed the "fraternal" concept of OA.

 

To me the tap-out, Ordeal, and any hazing that might have gone on constitues a right of passage for a scout. Its an attitude of "I don't know exactly whats going to happen, mom and dad aren't here to sweep in and protect me, but I can get through this and I TRUST these guys I'm joining to maybe scare me, but to keep me safe".

 

That type of expirience tends to BOND people together into a cohesive group. Its the very reason the Marine Corps has the "Crucible" at the end of boot camp. Its why every formal Army school I attended ends with a large field exercise where you are placed in unknown situations and must work as a team to be successful. I'm not suggesting that OA be given free rein to run-amok with initiations, but there is a POINT to the secrecy, the element of the unknown, and being forced to trust your fellow scouters without parents hovering at every turn.

 

When I was "tapped out" the remaining scouts at the campfire did not see much of the ceremony. All they saw was the candidates lined up, a short presentation about OA (like 5 minutes on who they are what they do), then those choosen were tapped (pushed on the shoulders by the 'tapper' and caught from behind by two scouts - could NEVER get away w/ that today) and imediately taken from the council campout campfire area to the "secret" OA fire ring, were the induction continued and you began the ordeal.

 

For those not choosen, it kept an air of mistery about what happens at OA. For those tapped, it started the process of indoctrinating them into the fraternity of service.

 

Again - I am looking at the process from a distance now, but it seems its more of a ' you do the time - you'll get in ' society that is long on the history, but perhaps short on the maturity / skills of those selected.

 

If there was a way to reinstate some of the mystery and 'unknown' to OA, it might carryover into a scout actually taking the honor of being included seriously.

 

Just my rambling thoughts...

[John-in-KC]

I have my OA handbook from my Ordeal. 1965 edition, 1969 edition. Want to know something? If there was hazing back then, surprise! IT WAS WRONG THEN, TOO

 

The closest thing I remember to hazing was being led out by an Arrowman after the pre-Ordeal to my sleeping site. I was told to keep my eyes shut. OTOH, he had his arm in mine, walked slowly and guided me across a rockfield. When he stopped me he said "bed down here, do not open your eyes, we will wake you in the morning."

 

Fortunately, I'd already been on a LT backback once, and knew where stuff was in my pack.

 

The next morning, I was no more than 100 yards from the camp kitchen

 

PING Trevorum: Did Walika do your Ordeal at Jubilee as well?

[DeanRx]

Yeah, but John.... was your mommy and daddy allowed to come along with you on the trip?

 

The fact that you were led off either with your eyes shut (or blindfolded as I remember I was) would constitute hazing. I had a similar expirience, but 1/2 way through being led to the campsite, we were told to "stay put - another Arrowman will come and take you on the rest of the journey" - then they made you stand still by yourself, blindfolded in the woods for a minute or two before the other OA member let you knwo they were there and going to lead you to your asigned sleeping place.

 

We were allowed to bring a sleeping bag, a poncho, a canteen of water, a pocketknife, and your BSA handbook - everything else was left at your tent back in camp.

 

I also remember being made to fall backwards off a picknick table and being caught by my Arrowmen brothers... I'm SURE that was considered hazing in the 80's as well. But it was openly tolerated, if not encouraged.

[shortridge]

(Just a reminder that this particular thread is not safeguarded...)

 

gwd-scouter,

 

I know many excellent Arrowmen who have health issues, sometimes of a severe nature. They all went through the Ordeal and are active contributors. The Ordeal is, at its core, an individual, personal challenge, and you really get out of it what you put into it.

 

I once assisted with a candidate who, midway through the process, found out that she was hypoglycemic. I had to make an emergency run for orange juice to help her keep from passing out. She made it through, in part due to the support of other Arrowmen and her fellow candidates, and is now the chapter adviser.

 

The lodge can and will make accommodations to help you. It's in no way "special treatment." I'm not in your shoes, but you might want to reconsider.

[shortridge]

"I also remember being made to fall backwards off a picknick table and being caught by my Arrowmen brothers... I'm SURE that was considered hazing in the 80's as well. But it was openly tolerated, if not encouraged."

 

Was it a trust fall? Those have been around for a while, and are part of the COPE program. Not hazing.

[gwd-scouter]

shortridge, I will not divulge any of the specifics about our Lodge's Ordeal but I am very aware of what it is. Special treatment was a poor choice of words on my part. I did mean that our Lodge will make accommodations for those folks with health issues/disabilities in order for them to participate in the OA and that's a wonderful thing.

 

In my case, while I would be OK with accepting some of the accommodations needed, I simply choose not to accept one in particular. One of the traditions in the Ordeal (which I will not reveal here) is something I simply could not participate in at all - the accommodations would have to be so many that it would pretty much mean that I just was exempted from that part. (Edited to add: Not just my opinion, it's what I was told when I mentioned this to an Advisor that was suggesting it was time for me to accept a nomination). I really have gone back and forth with this and was leaning toward finally saying yes and doing the ordeal this summer. Health issues have improved somewhat. I'd like to contribute somehow in strengthening our Chapter. We will see.

 

Even if I am never a member, I will continue to support the OA as best I can, keep knowledge of its many traditions and 'secrets' to myself, and promote it within our Troop as a wonderful program. We have three guys eligible for election this year. I can see two of them really getting into it - you know, those boys that have rarely missed a meeting or outing for the past two years and in general just love being Boy Scouts. The type of Scouts that light up when they hear they have a chance to push past their comfort level and try something new or more difficult. The type that will get what it's all about.(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[Hal_Crawford]

The "trust fall" is even used in a Geiko commercial. 'Course it doesn't go so well when a gecko is doing the catching.

[skeptic]

As I look back even farther than most posts, 1959, I see many parts of the Ordeal and Brotherhood that have either changed almost completely, or been modified to the point of having little or no real point any more. Was there, at times, hazing and unfairness; yes, on occasion. But it was not common, and mostly was dealt with when a problem became known.

 

I would agree that putting some of the mystery back into the Order and its rituals would possibly make it significant again for many who now see no purpose. Of course, I also would like to see true selection by troop members again, including a limit on how many based on troop size and eligibility. That in itself would put some of the purpose back into it; because it would no longer simply be an extension of becoming first class and having a minimum camping experience. It would possibly also help if Scoutmasters were given clearer guidance on their role in approving the selection. Too many leaders either do not understand, or choose to not ruffle parental feathers, by not withdrawing unprepared or undeserving scouts from eligibility. Yes, they do exist. Personally, I counsel any eligible scout who is at the minimum, or possibly shows lack of maturity and intent. Have one this year who decided he would wait a year after we talked a bit about the intent and expectations of the honor.

 

There is always that fine line that has to be walked by leaders; but they need to act as "leaders", not only in OA eligibility, but also in conferences and counseling. We do our scouts no favor by simply passing them on; that is one of the huge problems in the schools today. Accountability is a learned thing; but if there is none in childhood, then there will be none in adulthood.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Dean,

 

My father, a veteran of Corregidor, Ordealed with me the same weekend. He was off in an adult area that night.