Defending the Scout Oath

[aquaticeagle]

So the BSA Legal website defends the BSA position of banning homosexuals from membership by saying that it violates the "morally straight" portion of the Scout Oath. My question is this; when is the BSA going to ban all of those who smoke tobacco or drink any alcohol?

 

". . . To keep myself physically strong, . . .

 

Take care of your body so that it will serve you well for an entire lifetime. That means eating nutritious foods, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly to build strength and endurance. it also means avoiding harmful drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and anything else that can harm your health."

 

Source: http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/boyscout/bsoath.asp

[TheScout]

I know many people who smoke and drink and are strong.

[cardinal50]

Unlike homosexuality, smoking and alcohol consumption has historically been somewhat acceptable within reason. I'll confess I smoke but do so in private and not at scout functions. Yes it's bad and I've tried to quit several times. I guess I should try again.

As for alcohol, I see nothing wrong with responsible adult consumption.

Never before or during a scouting activity. (although sometimes I needed a beer after some adult meetings-out of uniform of course.)

I know I would certainly miss the Eucharist at church.(Yes, I know my options re: communion.)

[aquaticeagle]

"I know many people who smoke and drink and are strong."

 

"Unlike homosexuality, smoking and alcohol consumption has historically been somewhat acceptable within reason. I'll confess I smoke but do so in private and not at scout functions. Yes it's bad and I've tried to quit several times. I guess I should try again.

As for alcohol, I see nothing wrong with responsible adult consumption."

 

I didn't say that smokers and drinkers aren't strong nor am I arguing the rights and wrongs of drinking or smoking, I'm demonstrating the hypocrisy of the BSA's decision to ban gays on the basis of violating the Scout Oath. I don't feel anything negative towards drinkers or smokers. I do have a problem with an organization picking and choosing which parts of its policies they will uphold and which ones they will ignore. If the BSA wants to uphold and enforce its policies, it needs to enforce ALL of the policies and not just the ones they have personal feelings about.

[John-in-KC]

At the risk of waking Rick, and having him blow the Gilwell horn...

 

B-P SFAIK was a non-smoker, and actively encouraged Scouts not to smoke.

 

The issue of any drug, no matter how intaken, isn't easy. Many are legal is prescribed, but illegal if self-procured and self-taken. Some are out and out illegal.

 

We've tried Prohibition; it failed. We as society need to decide what matters, and regulate those to a fare-thee-well. Come to think of it, we have.

 

I just don't want to be in position of being the first victim to sue someone for being high on cannabis and operating a motor vehicle under the influence. In fact, I'd rather not be a DWI victim at all, thank you.

[TheScout]

They are enforcing all their policies.

 

Smoking and drinking doesn't make one not physically strong.

 

Being a gay does not make you morally straight.

 

Its not that hard.

[aquaticeagle]

"At the risk of waking Rick, and having him blow the Gilwell horn...

 

B-P SFAIK was a non-smoker, and actively encouraged Scouts not to smoke.

 

The issue of any drug, no matter how intaken, isn't easy. Many are legal is prescribed, but illegal if self-procured and self-taken. Some are out and out illegal.

 

We've tried Prohibition; it failed. We as society need to decide what matters, and regulate those to a fare-thee-well. Come to think of it, we have.

 

I just don't want to be in position of being the first victim to sue someone for being high on cannabis and operating a motor vehicle under the influence. In fact, I'd rather not be a DWI victim at all, thank you."

 

Again, I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of alcohol or tobacco consumption. I'm arguing the rights and wrongs of hypocrisy on the BSA's part.

[aquaticeagle]

"Smoking and drinking doesn't make one not physically strong."

 

No they aren't. If you'll notice in my original post in this thread, the BSA specifies under "Physically Strong" that scouts should avoid alcohol, drugs and tobacco. That is their specification, not mine.

[cardinal50]

Aquaticeagle said:

Take care of your body so that it will serve you well for an entire lifetime. That means eating nutritious foods, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly to build strength and endurance. it also means avoiding harmful drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and anything else that can harm your health."

 

I add: based on your interpretation, BSA should ban people so poor they're unable to get nutritious foods or those with sleep disorders that prevent them from getting enough sleep or anyone who's a couch potato.

 

Maybe the gay groups should start their own youth program.

[TheScout]

Then what is your point?

 

The BSA are not hypocrites, they just have views on those two terms that are not the same as yours.

 

Theres includes homosexuality being wrong, yours does not.

[aquaticeagle]

Cardinal, please pay attention to the thread. What you just incorrectly said that I stated, I did not state at all. That was a quote from BSA literature. Hence the quotation marks around it. That was not my definition. Providing that definition from BSA was the entire point of this post. I'll say it again. The BSA, not me, defined "physically strong" as:

 

"Take care of your body so that it will serve you well for an entire lifetime. That means eating nutritious foods, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly to build strength and endurance. it also means avoiding harmful drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and anything else that can harm your health."

[aquaticeagle]

Okay TheScout. Everybody on this thread needs to go back and read what the original post by me says. I DID not define "physically strong" as:

 

"Take care of your body so that it will serve you well for an entire lifetime. That means eating nutritious foods, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly to build strength and endurance. it also means avoiding harmful drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and anything else that can harm your health."

 

That was the BSA definition. That is what I posted it and why I put quotation marks around it. My entire point is that if the BSA defines "physically strong" that way then why not kick out smokers and drinkers?

[TheScout]

I've had a many drinks in my time and a few smokes in my time. I feel fine.

[cardinal50]

I apologize for attributing the BSA policy's definition of physically fit to you.

However, my opinion still stands.

I assume that since you are not interested in kicking people out of scouting who drink responsibly or smoke an occasional cigar,then you feel the BSA should accept gays with open arms.

 

To answer your original question: my opinion is that the BSA is never going to ban those who smoke or drink any alcohol.At least not those adults who do it outside of scouting.

[aquaticeagle]

"I've had a many drinks in my time and a few smokes in my time. I feel fine."

 

Do I seriously need to restate what I've already said a few times?

I NEVER said there is anything wrong with drinking or smoking. Not once on this thread have I said that. At all. Not once. I hate repeating myself but it's obviously necessary.

 

Please read what I wrote. I will even repost it right here just to make it easier for you.

 

So the BSA Legal website defends the BSA position of banning homosexuals from

membership by saying that it violates the "morally straight" portion of the Scout

Oath. My question is this; when is the BSA going to ban all of those who smoke

tobacco or drink any alcohol?

 

". . . To keep myself physically strong, . . .

 

Take care of your body so that it will serve you well for an entire lifetime. That

means eating nutritious foods, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly to

build strength and endurance. it also means avoiding harmful drugs, alcohol, tobacco,

and anything else that can harm your health."

 

Now read it again and again and again. I said that the BSA's definition of "physically strong" is what is posted above. I DID NOT say that is my definition. This thread will go nowhere if you don't pay attention to what is written in it.