Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Here's what Eisenhower said when he signed legislation adding 'under god' to the pledge of allegiance: "From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty." He seemed to have no problem telling millions of scholchildren what their religious beliefs ought to be; I'd call anyone like that a religious fanatic. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Dan, I agree. Moreover, over the years I've had several Rabbis attempt to explain how the Christian 'God' is not necessarily the same as the Hebrew 'God'. I admit, though, that I am unable to understand their reasoning, not that any of it really matters to me. I was thinking more about a large number of Hindus, Buddhists, and other faiths. Try these: "In Thor We Trust", nice ring to it. "In Zeuss We Trust", nah...too pretentious. "In Kama We Trust" (as in KamaSutra), mmmmmm. I guess Jimmy Swaggart, Marvin Gorman, and Jim Bakker would proclaim, "In God We Lust" . Certainly has the ring of truth... Edited to add: Gern, I'm ridiculing the superficial slogan and actions of gratuitous lust, not the faiths.(This message has been edited by packsaddle) Link to post Share on other sites
Hal_Crawford 15 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I would agree with you if that happened today but not within the context of the 1950's. Even in the early 60's we started each (public school) day with the Lord's Prayer in addition to the Pledge and singing America ("...God shed his grace on thee"). This wasn't all Eisenhower's influence. To many Americans freedom of religion pretty much meant that you were free to be any type of Christian (or maybe any type of Protestant). In that context Eisenhower's words strike me as those of a main-stream politician reading talking points (that someone else probably wrote) while signing a bill (passed by congress) that probably didn't seem very important or controversial at the time. Ike had his flaws but I don't think that being a religious fanatic was one of them. Hal Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 He seemed to have no problem telling millions of scholchildren what their religious beliefs ought to be; I'd call anyone like that a religious fanatic. How does adding "under God" to the Pledge tell anyone what their religious beliefs should be? God isn't a religion. And if you are gonna classify Ike as a religious fanatic, Merlyn, you should add yourself into the same category. Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Ed, it's telling them they should believe in god. And I don't use governmental power to tell children what their religious views ought to be, Ed. Eisenhower did. Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1616 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Ultimately doesn't matter. If one really does "trust in God", then the printing of the phrase on the US currency may be somewhat inspirational and reassuring. Render unto Caeser and all that. If one doesn't trust in God, then the phrase's inclusion on the currency shouldn't offend, only remind one of it's futilty. Tsk,tsk, isn't it sad. It certainly doesn't "establish" any given religion, one over another. From a penny's viewpoint, all religions are equally useless or necessary. Take your personal choice and gain or lose by the results. Trusting in the currency is another issue altogether. Now, there is a movement that is convinced that the mint is quietly trying to eeeeease the "IGWT" motto off coinage because it isn't terribly visible on the new pesidential dollar coin. Of course, it is engraved into the outer edge of the coin, so it is still there. Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 This is a tangent, but have you seen the designs for the bicentennial Lincoln cent? Go to www.usmint.gov. There are 4 new designs for the reverse. I especially like the last one (1861-1865), suggesting that the nation was still a work in progress, not yet finished. Link to post Share on other sites
Hal_Crawford 15 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Trevorum: I agree about the penny obverse. I like the message in the unfinished dome. BTW: I wonder if creationists in the UK refuse to use the 10 note with Charles Darwin on the obverse? Hal Link to post Share on other sites
gwd-scouter 11 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I've heard the arguments about IGWT on our currency for years. I don't really care either way. I wonder, though. If the mint just quietly began making new coins without IGWT, would anyone even notice? Does anyone really inspect their change that closely? Link to post Share on other sites
Hal_Crawford 15 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 All it would take is one conservative Christian coin collector with a blog and a day later the whole world would notice. At that point the televangelists and the conservative talk radio types would treat it like it was the end of civilization. Link to post Share on other sites
2eagles 10 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Interesting -- all the real issues that face our country (healthcare, people being able to afford to live etc..) and time is wasted on words. A scout is reverent. No were does it state what religion or belief - just a belief. Why is it when "man" becomes involved are ideas perverted to a specific group. The country was based on freedom of religion (of course there were only a few colonies that practiced that behavior). I do not see how this particular wording imposes any belief - Does anyone really look at the cash they are using and say this is making me believe and trust in God? Wow, good thing we aren't in a country that shoots you if you don't agree with the belief system. Maybe we all should take a page from the 84 year old man, who re built his house after Katrina (with out power or any help) and just take care of the real business at hand. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yeah, I'd just as soon avoid the firing squad but I would kind of like someone to throw a shoe or two at me sometime, any size will do. Matzos would be OK too but they could use a little salt. Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 gwd, I take it you're not a counselor for the Coin Collecting merit badge ... Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Ed, it's telling them they should believe in god. And I don't use governmental power to tell children what their religious views ought to be, Ed. Eisenhower did. No it's not Merlyn! No you don't use governmental power, Merlyn, but your tactics are fanatical in nature! Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Ed writes, quoting me: Ed, it's telling them they should believe in god. And I don't use governmental power to tell children what their religious views ought to be, Ed. Eisenhower did. No it's not Merlyn! No you don't use governmental power, Merlyn, but your tactics are fanatical in nature! Well Ed, as to your first assertion, if "under god" isn't telling children to believe in god, changing it to "under no god" wouldn't be telling them there isn't a god either, right? So there'd be no constitutional problem with having public schools have kids recite that every morning, correct? As for my tactics being fanatical in nature, I have to ask . . . . . . . so? Link to post Share on other sites
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