impressions and realities

[packsaddle 753]

On more than one occasion, while observing the 'Great Scoutmaster' thing, I've had parents ask me if we were deifying the SM. Impressions indeed.

[Lisabob 13]

What an interesting interpretation, packsaddle. That had never occurred to me but I can definitely imagine it happening. Most cub packs in our area are even less focused on religion than local troops, so it might be quite surprising to some parents when their boy crosses over and things are different. Now I'm curious - can someone tell me about the origin of that "May the Great Master of All Scouts be with us til we meet again" blessing/request? Typically our chaplain's aid will end troop meetings with a non-denominational prayer and this closing but that's about as religious (in any organized sense) as things get in our troop.

 

Anyway, Venividi is correct that I wasn't really looking for advice - this woman in question has a reputation for seeing how far she can push to get her way and I think she's discovering where the lines are in the troop - but I appreciate the advice anyway. Always good to get other perspectives.

 

 

[gwd-scouter 11]

We've had a Sunday service, Scout's Own if you like, on our campouts for as long as I can remember. Varying degrees of success. Several years ago, our Scoutmaster was an Evangelical Christian and put together the services to his liking. Since he led the prayers and none of the Scouts helped prepare the services, when I stepped in as SM we had nothing. So, we pulled together some things off the Internet, some stuff from summer camp, and other bits and pieces.

 

We went to a Council-wide camporee in 2005 and the Sunday service that included prayers for many different religions including Muslim, Hindu and Wiccan. I really liked that, but for at least a couple of families in our Troop, we could not possibly even try to have a single prayer at any time that wasn't Christian or didn't invoke Jesus. Heck, one of the parents from one of the families got very upset and yelled in my face because I allowed the Scouts to just TALK about different religions during a campout a couple of years ago. You know, the "Scouting is a Christian organization and you had no right allowing the other Scouts to suggest other religious views" etc. etc.

 

The past year our SPL has picked a different Scout each week to say a prayer at the beginning of our meetings. This was in response to a couple of Scouts (families) that were uncomfortable with the heavy Jesus references used by the one Scout that always volunteered to do an opening prayer.

[acco40 95]

In all of the depictions that I've seen, Jesus was more on the anorexic side than overweight.

 

 

:-)

[scoutldr 732]

Pack, I think your problem is, it's the "Great Master of all Scouts"...not "Scoutmaster", most of whom are mere mortals.

[funscout 11]

LisaBob,

 

Is your scout Catholic? If so, then a Sunday service led by scouts and scouters would not "count" as mass for him. If the mother is unwilling to pick her son up herself, either early Sunday morning, or even Saturday evening, then that is her problem. I hate it when my fellow Christians act so un-Christian like! If the mom pulls her son out of your troop then it will be his loss, but probably a relief to your troop!

 

I don't know where people get the idea that Scouting is a Christian organization. Even though my brother was a boy scout, I didn't know about the religious aspect of scouting until my own boys started Cub Scouts.

[packsaddle 753]

Scoutldr, tell that to Scoutingagain as well. I know the lines but for some reason the boys in their (perhaps) dyslexic way have corrupted it to 'Scoutmaster', heh, heh. I think it's kinda cute.

[Gold Winger 9]

I've always heard it as "Great Scoutmaster." "Master of all Scouts" would rankle me some.

 

As for missing church on a Sunday, my father never agreed but I always figured that God would rather have you out doing something positive and uplifting than just sitting in a church and fantasizing about the cute redheaded girl two rows up (come on, we're talking about teenaged boys here).

[John-in-KC 311]

I guess GW, you'd also be rankled at the hymn...

 

Jesus, O my Jesus...

Master, Lord, and friend...

Take me, Lord and break me...

Let me feel Your heart again.

 

Lisa, I like Scoutldr's idea of visiting with Mom and discussing the DRP. We aren't a Christian organization.

 

To whoever talked about Mass and the RC obligation, I've known priests who were Scouters do Mass for their Troops in the field.

 

As far as LDS units go, I've seen some great ones... but they also had the Sierra Nevada range in their backyard. Amazing how kids want to get out when there is world class ground at their doorstep.

[acco40 95]

At Jambo they don't encourage Scout's Own, oops, interfaith worship services, but instead have it set up so that numerous faiths (LDS, Jewish, Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Methodists, etc.) hold services and the Scouts and Scouters get a smorgasbord of choices.

 

It never fails with 12 - 17 year old boys doing the choosing and old fart Scouters doing the planning but the mainstream faiths get much less than expected and the "interesting" faiths get overwhelmed. For example, they had about four different Catholic sites for worship and only one Zen Buddist. The Zen Buddist site was overflowing with interested Scouts.

 

 

[eisely 13]

I am shocked - shocked to learn that some people think that scouting is a Christian organization. Here I thought we were a bunch of para military fascists.

[SSScout 1616]

Lisabob:

I will offer two comments.

One: Of course we're a Christian organization. We're also a Muslim organization (else why am I commishining two new Muslim units?), a Buddhist organization and a Jewish organization (witness the several purely Jewish Troops I met at the Jamboree and the Rabbi who was our Chief Chaplain), among other organizations we are.

 

Second: Why do we try to reinvent our own particular wheel? Quote her the Founders words. I don't think anyone has said it better.

 

"Reverence to God and reverence for one's neighbor and reverence for oneself as a servant of God, is the basis of every form of religion. The method of expression of reverence to God varies with every sect and denomination. What sect or denomination a boy belongs to depends, as a rule on his parents wishes. It is our business to respect their wishes and to second their efforts to inculcate reverence, whatever form of religion the boy professes."

 

So to respect the parents (oh yes, where is the dad in this?) wishes, you might have to suggest they (1) not go on the activities that do not fit their schedule, (2) help plan trips that WOULD fit their schedule, (3)realize that Scouting is multi faceted and ya can't please everybody all the time (4) we love you anyway (5) or the church down the street has a Troop, maybe they would suit you better?

 

And above all, remind them : do not attend the national Jamboree. Too many OTHER types of Scouts there...

 

YiS

[CalicoPenn 729]

When I was a lad, we ended every meeting with "May the Great Scoutmaster, of all Good Scouts, be with us until we meet again". At first, I thought the Great Scoutmaster was the Scoutmaster in the Norman Rockwell painting "The Scoutmaster" because that was the image of a Scoutmaster I had (a print was hanging on the wall of my home when I was a young lad).

 

Later on, as I started learning more about the history of Scouting, I realized I was completely wrong about the Great Scoutmaster. I just knew the Great Scoutmaster had to be Lord Robert Baden-Powell, the founder of the Boy Scouts, and the First (and therefore Greatest) Scoutmaster.

 

No one ever explained to us just who the Great Scoutmaster was supposed to be. Only when I got into the OA and started interacting with lads from other Districts did I come to understand that some people think the Great Scoutmaster isn't Baden-Powell at all, but ... Green Bar Bill. And there were some folks who thought it had some kind of religious connotation and that the Great Scoutmaster is some deity to be prayed to. What was apparent is that no one ever talked about just who the Great Scoutmaster was supposed to represent so we all interpreted the phrase in our own way - and no one ever fought over what it means. No one ever asked us when we were Scouts who we thought the Great Scoutmaster was - therefore no one ever "corrected" our interpretations. Knowing what I do about the Scout Leaders I interacted with on a regular basis, I don't think any of them would have.

 

To this day, I still consider the Great Scoutmaster to be Lord Robert Baden-Powell, and that the request that the "Great Scoutmaster, of all Good Scouts, be with us till we meet again" was a request that the spirit of Lord Baden-Powell help keep us on the Scouting path.

 

Calico

 

 

[scoutingagain 20]

OK uh, got it.

 

SA

[acco40 95]

Just like the pause that many put in the Pledge of Alligiance (one nation, under God) doesn't make it correct. May the great master of all Scouts ... getting co-opted to Great Scoutmaster by many doesn't make that correct either.