General Reinwald interview about a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military installation.

[scoutingagain]

Chris Rock (high paid black comedian, entertainer) has the best line relative to this discussion. "Not a single white guy would trade places with me,... and I'm rich!"

 

SA

[Trevorum]

Hunt asks, "Have you ever been pulled over because the police were wondering what you were doing in the wrong neighborhood?"

 

This actually happened to me (a white boy), and in my own neighborhood, too. The cops said the car I was driving was too old and beat up for the community. Then a poor grad student, I told him if he thought my car was bad, he should see the furniture in my apartment ...

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I will attempt this, not sure if I can do this justice however:

 

I remember growing up in elementary school being told as a male I had to mind my manners with female teachers and I had to be sure I let the young ladies in line in front of me, hold the door open for them and if I wanted to curry favor with them, carry their books home from school, even though later I was told it was important to acknowledge they could anything I could. As I grew, and I was big for my age, I was warned against retaliating against the little guys suffering from "Napoleon complex" as it was certain I would be blamed for any altercation regardless of who did the provoking. Then as my voice developed I was warned with my size and thunderous voice I would have to be careful not to scare those younger than I or for that matter the elderly as I was told I looked "menacing" when upset. In college I had to compete against minorities, females, and female minorities who didnt have to score the same on the entrance tests because of "affirmative action". When I became a manager I had to learn to tolerate diversity and be sensitive to my employees needs and attend yearly sensitivity training. That my work ethic may not match others and I would have to allow for cultural differences. I realize I can only speak from my experience, that which I have experienced, but if I had any advantages, I wish someone would explain where and how. My father was a middle class workman and I worked my way through Community College, got my Bachelors after working for a year by working every week end and holiday for 3 years and my Master's Degree by going to night school. When some one talks of all my advantages, I wonder...(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[local1400]

"Can't we ALL just get along?" This past August I attended an annual conference for officers of the union I am a member of. I took advantage of as many workshops as I could. One in particular was called 'Acceptable or Not-Workplace Behavior'. The presenter said something that really hit me. "If you tell a joke at work, you better make sure everyone is laughing."

[Hunt]

"I could answer your questions but you really would not like my answers because they dont fit your profile. Yes, you are guilty of profiling. You are supporting the notion that basing a decision on the fact that a person is White and Male is justified."

 

No, I was making the point that minorities are profiled and stereotyped in ways that actually harm them much more often in our society than are white males. I would certainly agree that even white males are unfairly categorized at times, but I think Chris Rock was right. I mean, look at the discussions of Barack Obama, with lots of pundits saying that America may not be "ready" for a black president.

[scoutingagain]

"In college I had to compete against minorities, females, and female minorities who didnt have to score the same on the entrance tests because of "affirmative action".

 

So, OGE with all sincere respect, as based on your posts I believe you to be a very fair minded person, as a manager based on the experience you've described, how do you believe you view a minority job applicant with a college degree versus a non-minority applicant? If a minority applicant had heard you say the above, do you think they might get the idea they didn't have the same opportunity at a position a white person might have?

 

SA

[OldGreyEagle]

Touche SA,

 

As I said I can only talk from my own experience and I can see how a minority applicant could view my attitude towards them as hostile, but I also have a right to my opinions and expressing them may give minorities an insight that not all white males feel they are king of the universe.

[scoutingagain]

OGE,

 

I agree. I also resent the idea that just because I am a white male, I must be some kind racist, sexist, scum who actively works to suppress others who are not like me. But that is not the same as recognizing that some segments of society do indeed play on a field that is tipped against them relative to my position. That does not mean though I believe that the field is tipped so far that it is totally non-competitive either or that affirmative action programs using quotas or preferential treatment are the best way to level it.

 

SA

[LongHaul]

Hunt,

Being from Illinois Ive heard Mr. Obama speak. Ive heard Jesse Jackson speak, as far back as 1968, and Bobby Rush and everyone of them is concerned with the plight of AFRICAN-AMERICANS. If President Bush was to announce he was stating a commission to help under privileged WHITE AMERICANS there would be a riot. Is America ready for a Black President based on the color of his skin? Or is the question rather is America ready for a president whos number 1 priority and concern is African-Americans. We (Chicago) had Richard Daley for a Mayor for many years, very white and very patronage oriented. We had Mayor Harold Washington, very Black and very concerned with Blacks getting theirs. Neither is a proper way to administer a government. When government officials are concerned with what color skin the constituent benefiting from a program has then that is racism. Because some Blacks are repressed or deprived of their civil rights does not justify an elected official to priorities his/her agendas according to race UNLESS the constituents who elected that official are of one race. (Or primarily of one race) The President of the United States must represent all Americans regardless of race. When Barack Obama can look at me and not see a White man I will be able consider him as Presidential material.

Shortly after taking office President Clinton announced that he was going to appoint his wife Hillary to head a committee/commission to look into the issue of Health Care in America. There was an outcry because she was a.) his wife and b.) a woman. Did anyone think she would come up with a plan that focused on females? If Senator Clinton were to be elected President does anyone think that she would seek to pass legislation which was designed to benefit females? Does anyone think that Senator Clinton sees me as a White Male in the same sense that Senator Obama sees me as a White male? Im not ready to vote for a Black man to be president, not because of the color of his skin but because of his political platform. I thought that was what I was supposed to use to base my decision.

LongHaul

 

[packsaddle]

LongHaul,

"Im not ready to vote for a Black man to be president, not because of the color of his skin but because of his political platform."

Could you clarify this statement? On the surface it seems that you identify the political platform on the basis of skin color. If correct, any opposition based on political platform essentially is the same as opposition based on skin color. Did you really intend to say that?

[OldGreyEagle]

I am not so sure about HIllary's effect on Health Care, have you ever noticed that most hospital's have Women's Health Centers? That they often have a Women's Health Help line advertised? How mnay hospitals do you know have a Mens Health Center? Or are promoting mens health?

[packsaddle]

OGE, you reminded me that a few years ago I had some serious surgery and for some reason, I was put in a women's hospital section (specialized equipment or something....the hospital, not me). But they treated me really well. Almost like a celebrity, I was surrounded by women, patients, nurses, visitors. It was..ahem...stimulating, and I recovered way too quickly (thinking back wistfully). It kind of reminded me of a famous lion, Frazier, you might remember him. And the life cycle of the salmon, which I think is the epitomy of a life quest...spawn 'til you die.

 

Better yet, I somehow gained a greater sense of color coordination and fashion. Go figure.

[Hunt]

"When Barack Obama can look at me and not see a White man I will be able consider him as Presidential material."

 

It seems to me that this a case of (ahem) the pot calling the kettle black. To a degree, I agree with your point with respect to politicians like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton--their core issues are civil rights and minority interests, and thus they are hard to take seriously as candidates that will represent everyone. I don't see that in Obama, at least not in terms of what he is doing and saying on the national stage. Also, although I know Obama self-identifies as black, when I look at him I see somebody who is multi-ethnic, which I think may give him an outlook that would be very helpful in a national leader. He's kind of like the Tiger Woods of politics.

[LongHaul]

Packsaddle,

No, in rereading my statement I can see how I should have worded it differently. What I was trying to say was that I can not in good conscience vote for Senator Obama based on the Senators political platform. That platform in my opinion is based on his being part Black. What I meant to say was that after listening to Senator Obama speak, both before and after his election to the US Senate I find that his political platform is focused on the plight and subsequent need of African-Americans to the point that he is not interested in the job of representing the entire population of the State of Illinois. I never heard him state a position of the plight of the homeless as a group, but have heard him refer to under privileged Blacks forced to live on the streets of Chicago. Ive never heard him speak about the plight of the working poor, those not on welfare or assistance that have no health care and little disposable income, but I have heard him speak on improving the lives of those on welfare and assistance in Chicagos inner city. I could and will vote for Senator Clinton depending on who she runs against. The fact that she is a woman would not prevent me from voting for her because the fact that she is a woman does not seem to be the focus of her political agenda. She, IMO, would not be running for the purpose of being the first female president, Senator Obama and his supporters, and again this is how I see it, want Senator Obama to be the first Black president.

 

OGE,

Ever wonder why we hear so much about breast cancer but almost nothing about prostate cancer? Percentage wise more men contract prostate cancer than women contact breast cancer. Male chauvinist societal values I guess. As for Senator Clintons effect on Health care it was all but nullified by partisan concerns about her husband and her gender. Her ideas seldom got the discussion time they deserved.

 

Hunt,

Im not running for President of the United States. When a boy comes to me and wants to join our troop I do not see a race, color or religion I see a boy. I do not run a program focused on race, color or religion. I dont advocate programs which target select portions of the troop without providing equal programs for the others. (i.e. High Adventure, Aquatic, Hiking) All boys dont aspire to go to Philmont so when we do, we try to provide an equally appealing alternative to the other members of our troop. Senator Obama talks a different talk here in Chicago when his audience is primarily Black. His national coverage does not have the duration that his appearances here in Chicago had. You may see him as multi ethnic but he sees himself as Black and that is what motivates his thoughts and actions. His being Black is not the issue I have with him its his statements which lead me to believe that his primary concerns will be racially motivated. If a white candidate said these things there would be outrage but when a Black, Latino, Asian candidate targets specific groups to aid its perfectly all right. If favoritism in politics is wrong then its wrong for every one or its not wrong for anyone. Too many people dont want to stop discrimination they want to change who is being discriminated against to suit their need. As I said before about Chicagos mayor Washington he actually came out and said Now its time for us to get ours. He wanted Blacks to get the perks Whites had had for so long. We now have city rules which dictate the percentage of Black, minority, Woman Owned contractors which must be used for city contracts. Best quality and best value missed the boat. Its business as usual with a different privileged group.

LongHaul

 

[packsaddle]

LongHaul, Thanks for the clarification. BTW, one reason for the difference between breast cancer and prostate cancer is that breast cancer is a far greater killer and often kills much earlier in life. I think the difference in emphasis is justified.