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Atlanta Scout Executive resigns amid scandal

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Merlyn, I'll admit as Packsaddle did that you had me going for a few words. And it doesn't stop there, by the way. Where IS your LOCAL LFL office? Most likely it is your local BSA council office, from what I have seen on the web. Additionally when I followed the LFL link it gave me a place to plug in my zip code to get the address of my local LFL office. I got the address. It is an address that I recognize, guess why? And then I plugged in a zip code that I know is in another BSA council in NJ, and I know where that council's office is. Guess what?


FScouter, as for why it mattes, for one thing it is my understanding that there are certain grant programs in which the council gets a certain amount per registered member. In turn, the executives are evaluated in part on how much money they bring in. More members (real or not) means more money coming in, means more money for the exec. Now, I think the large majority of Scouting executives are honest. But I don't see how you can ignore the fact that there is a problem.


Oh, and FScouter, you had questioned in a past post why the FBI was investigating this. I think it's pretty simple. If you commit a fraud using either the mails or "wires" (phone, computer, etc.) to transmit fraudulent information, that is a federal crime.

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You left out the IRS.


The IRS had a field day reaming the Northeast Georgia Council for tax improprieties after the CE resigned to go to work for National. Of course that was a triple header. Not only was the CE juggling the books, he was manipulating registration numbers AND covering up a Youth Protection problem with a DUI DE who was also accused of buying beer for under age Boy Scouts.


Thats why National found the CE a job with National since he was one of the "good old boys."



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Amazing how heads remain in the sand.


Funny how the whistle-blower that brought in the FBI in Greater Alabama got thrown out of Scouting on the same day the "official" audit showed hw was right and numbers were overstated by 30%.


Holmes is blaming "the ACLU" for these declines. You've GOT to be kidding. BSA agreed to switch over charters for units where schools or military units held them. This isn't a problems when the units are REAL. Parent Teacher groups or other community groups step up without any problems when there are REAL units with REAL members. "Ghost Units" have a hard time finding sponsors.


Why won't Greater Alabama allow independent outsiders to check on these units? And how come there are more LFL members there than Scouts? THAT is a huge red flag that it's FRAUD, FRAUD. Those numbers were cut in half - but the Board says they'll reinstate these members when "funding" is found. Real warm bodies are harder to find.


And Holmes thinks he's going to be Chief Scout Executive some day??? About the whole "character" issue???? Shouldn't the PAID professionals show the same amount required of volunteer leaders??? Frankly, I'd want someone a little more intelligent to run ANY organization this big. "John Does" with addresses at Council Headquarters were listed that way for "their protection" and "The ACLU ate my units" excuses are embarassingly lame. At least the short serving SE in Atlanta (7 months?) showed some honor and quit (or was he really fired?). His predecessor - now up in NH - is doing a pre-emptive damage control audit in his new Council. You think he'd have some responsibility in all this. After all, I doubt numbers doubled or tripled in under a year. And BSA is being so helpful in giving Atlanta an interim SE. You wouldn't want the Board to actually hire someone with scruples. They might find out that numbers really are about 500. Sounds like damage control.


But take heart - all the money that was supposed to be spent on this disadvantaged youth program was spent there - or so BSA says. The very few REAL black Scoutmasters there might be wondering where all the money went.


Holmes, the SE makes over $200,000 a year (where average salaries are less than $30,000) and works in new $2 million offices. He was involved in the Circle Ten Scandal in Dallas where no "fraud" was found by BSA but numbers dropped by 30-40%


Atlanta's "independent" audit found just over 5,000 scouts (with a little mentioned 3,400 "active"). Depending on when you check, BSA claimed 15,000 or 10,000 members in this disadvantaged youth program. Oh, and the "audit" checked only 68 units of 482 claimed (were those all they could find?). Black Scoutmasters in Atlanta have staged protests removing their SCout shirts and say they'd be surprised if there were mnore than 500 scouts. Operation PUSH - a civil rights group - is daring BSA to muster even 1000 scouts in this program.


You have a whole thread here "Where is the outrage?" over one more politician's comments. Well, where is the outrage over this? Why Aren't volunteer leaders screaming over the abysmal behavior being shown by HIGHLY PAID STAFFERS? Instead everyone sighs or shrugs. Some are more outraged that such things are even mentioned - more outraged than at the bad behavior recounted.


How come "the good old boys" in BSA's paid professional corps make hundreds of thousands of dollars and get to keep their jobs even when caught violating the law - not once but twice. Is the standard for "fraud" 100% overstatement? Is 30% so common that it doesn't even raise an eyebrow?


BSA seems to have inverted what "character" means now. How come so many of those that did the right thing in Idaho are out of Scouting now while all those that covered things up got promoted?





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Am I missing something?

What does a eight year old case of a child molester have to do with the Atlanta Scout Executive?

Do People make mistakes? Yes.

Did the Atlanta Scout Exec cheat? Yes

Does every Scout Executive Cheat? No

Are all BSA volunteers child molesters? No

Do we go out of our way to protect the children we serve? Yes


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Refering to the Idaho case was overkill.

I suspect the relevancy is only in that the negligence case against the Boy Scouts was only recently resolved.


>January 2001 A court refuses victim's request to open files in the negligence case against the Boy Scouts.


>2001, 2004 Negligence cases are settled.


>2005 Court records in one of the negligence cases are opened.


The suspicion of Administrative Abuse by the Professionals creates a very fine line between their having authority to set Scout standards and the need for confidentiality.


What is really needed is some type of internal Scout organization that can provide the checks and balances.

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There seems to be a problem with "Private Posts" on the site. I sent one to myself to test it out after receiving a request for a reply from a private post from jkhny that had no actual post attached to it. My test private post to myself did not work, or I did it incorrectly.


If jkhny would like to re-send me a post directly, my direct email address is AlcovyScout@comcast.net.


Thank you.


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For thirty years , (us Scouters) have seen this happening, and most of us brought this up at Round tables, council meeting, but were just ignored. We, the old timers,did not want to smear our organization negatively, there fore we never brought this internal matter to the media. This is what I mean, when they don't let active 'SCOUMASTERs' be part of the governing boards of the BSA inc.Real SMs would never allow such un ethical practices to continue and would institute policies to benefit the Troops.Juris

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I agree with PNscouter, it is not overall numbers, it's quality of the scout program. I found out long ago, that you have to provide an exciting,challenging,adventures, fun loving program with good trained leadership, in order to keep the boy in scouting for many years. I am not going into the details at this time but, you can read "Juris" statements on some of the posts." keep it simple, make it fun " Some of the Scouting concepts have to be overhauled. Here is to Scouting. Juris.

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For more recent updates on the Atlanta situation, go to




which is trying to keep a direct handle on the situation.


My compliments to the wisdom of non-professional Scout leaders.


A couple of years ago, I formulated this guideline for our Troop:




Rules for Being a Scoutmaster


Rule #1: The Scouts must have fun.

If the Scouts arent having fun then they wont come to Scouting, let alone have the involvement that motivates them to learn skills and the skill of working together. People learn best from joy rather than obligation or fear.


Rule #2: The Scoutmaster must have fun.

No matter what the Scouts think theyre doing, if YOU are not having fun then THEYRE NOT having fun. If you are not enjoying what you are doing, then you not only shouldnt do it, you are serving as a BAD role model for the Scouts.


Rule #3: Always Be Teaching

Even if they dont understand, tie Scouting Principles to everything they do. People learn by doing rather than listening, but if they think that there is a rational explanation for what they are doing, by the time they understand the explanation, they will have also mastered the skill and be able to pass it on to other Scouts.


Rule #4: See Rule #1



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JKHNY, i SEE YOU HAVE SCOUTING AT HEART,LIKE ALL OF US. You are hundred percen correct. We have to sweep all those non profesioanal premodanas out of service. Return scouting to the boys and the strugling Scoutmasters. I suggest that Scoutmaster's ( they are the most that care )should be on the board of directors, and not glory seeking exec's of telephone,automotive and oil companies. The Scouter magazine and boys life, should be edited by Scoutmasters. The articles should be scout motivated, and not turned into a teenage magazine. I never seen an article in the Scouter where they talked about the discrepencies in Scouting nor the scantal with the phony numbers. I feel the magazine in not for us, but only for the profesionals. Let's take SCOUTING back where it belongs, with the adult leaders in Scouting.Juris.

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BW, I can attest that XRay, is correct. I have suspected some the things he mentioned going on in my council. But, as you know in the old days we had no forum, Just ROUND TABLE to voice our concerns. We were listened to, and then ignored. When I used to follow up on it later, I was pacified, and told it will be taken care off. But it was not. See the shortcomings that was created by the proffesionals in the BSA.INC.

Here is to Scouting.Juris. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

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X-rays post as I and others have shown is filled with innacuracies and folklore driven more by emotion that knowledge.


You do not have to be a professional to have knowledge of BSA preocesses such as charter renewals. It does not take a professional to understand or appreciate what professionals do. It does not take a professional to see that COs needs to be more selective in choosing volunteer leaders.


(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

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