Pat Tillman - A True Hero

[hops_scout 9]

That article has made a lot of people VERY mad. AT a military forum I'm a member of, I'll quote one person. "We defend democracy, but dont practice it"

 

They found his email on HIS website and flooded it.

I'm not saying that is the best solution, but they kind of got what they wanted.

 

He is a true American Hero

 

"because freedom dont come free"

[Hunt 11]

I think the article is profoundly wrong--but I did notice something significant. The article treats the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq as if they are the same thing--they aren't. But the writer of this article is not the only person to make this mistake.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Here's what Tillman's brother said during the memorial:

 

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/05/04/SPG5K6FD091.DTL

(also at http://tinyurl.com/yr7ku )

 

Tillman's youngest brother, Rich, wore a rumpled white T-shirt, no jacket, no tie, no collar, and immediately swore into the microphone. He hadn't written anything, he said, and with the starkest honesty, he asked mourners to hold their spiritual bromides.

 

"Pat isn't with God,'' he said. "He's f -- ing dead. He wasn't religious. So thank you for your thoughts, but he's f -- ing dead.''

 

It sounds to me like Tillman didn't believe in god.

[eisely 13]

I don't think you can infer anything about Pat Tillman's beliefs from what his younger brother allegedly said.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

We can't conclude anything from his brother stating "He wasn't religious"?

[LovetoCamp 9]

The brother seems to be a pretty classy atheist.

[Rooster7 11]

Merlyn,

 

It is quite obvious that you are not religious. Because if you were religiousor more appropriately, if you had a belief in God, youd realize that no man can claim he knows what is in another mans heart or how that person stands before God. Rich Tillman has an opinion about Pats beliefs, but only God knows Pats heart. Similarly, I am repulsed by your rejection of God, but when you die regardless of what comes out of your mouth today or even moments prior to your death, only God knows what is truly in your heart. This is one small reason among many, which explains why God is the only one fit to judge.

 

BTW, what is a bromide?

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

I guess you find it incredible that Tillman's brother would know his opinion on religious matters, yet you seem to have no problem discerning MY religious views. How do you know Tillman's brother didn't know him better than you know me?

 

And congratulations on writing a sentence that contradicts itself; you claim that no man can know another man's heart, then you proceed to state what my opinion is on religious matters. If you can do that about me, Tillman's brother can do that about his brother.

(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Nothing like a brother showing dignity, respect, and decorum at a memorial.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

I'd say the mourners putting forth the "spiritual bromides" without regard to Pat Tillman's own religious beliefs are the ones not showing respect or dignity. His brother's outburst was in response to the disrespect shown to his late brother by all the religious blather for someone who wasn't religious. It's like clueless people babbling about Jesus at a memorial service for a Jew.

[Adrianvs 10]

Merlyn,

 

If the deceased is merely a corpse at this point, then why does it matter if they are disrespected? If it is just a corpse sitting there, then why does it matter what the family or friends do with it or say about it? You seem to care a lot. If Pat gone, then why do his wishes matter? Is it not an object in the custody of the living? Take your dogma to its logical conclusions.

 

Sounds to me like little brother is pissed off at all the attention Pat is getting. If he truly wanted to respect his brother (atheist, agnostic, or otherwise), he would have dressed appropriately and prepared something. The fact that his entire speech was a 'rebuttal' of everyone else's sentiments indicates to me that he was acting in his own interests.

 

I find it amusing that every other friend, acquaintence, and family member of Pat seems to disagree with this brother and yet Merlyn credits little Rich alone with knowledge of his brother's beliefs and sentiments. Interesting..

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

I haven't seen anyone who has disagreed with his brother's statement that Tillman wasn't religious. And if a funeral is for the living, doesn't that include Pat's brother? Or doesn't he count?

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Moi-lin seems to approve of the brother's vulgar language, just more evidence of the general lack of class exhibited by atheists.

 

Moi-lin also seems to equate "not being religious" with being an atheist. No one would ever call me religious since I skip church 50 weeks a year, dislike most organized religions, etc., etc., etc.. However, I am not an atheist and I would not be offended by people making religious comments at my funeral, even from my heavenly perch I wouldn't be offended by Christian comments, Bhuddist comments, Muslim comments, Jewish comment or even Wiccan comments.

[Adrianvs 10]

Of course Rich counts. I'm sure that he will get a funeral when the time comes. Hey, perhaps you should volunteer to give the eulogy.

 

"Rich isn't with God. He's f-cking dead. Thank you."

[Rooster7 11]

Merlyn,

 

For the most part, you seem to be fairly intelligent. I never claimed to know anything about you beyond what you've stated about yourself. Now, it's possible that you never actually claimed to be an atheist...perhaps I assumed it...and after making this assumption for so long, I've somehow internalized it as fact. If so, I apologize...my bad. If you have proclaimed yourself to be an atheist (i.e., it's not just an assumptionIve seen it in a post), then I fail to follow your complaint. If Im guilty of anything, its a bad memory. I did not claim to know your heart just your opinion.

 

As for Rich Tillman's knowledge of his brother's beliefs, that's not an easy answer. I'm 45 years old and I'm not certain what my brothers believe (for various reasons that I need not go into). And even if I felt I did know what their stated beliefs were, I could never know what's in their heart.

 

Do you do not understand the difference between knowing someones stated opinion (which is very obtainable for most of us) and knowing someones heart (not an opinion but ones true alliance and affection for good or evil)? Of course, I define good as being God and His will.

 

Adrianvs,

 

Your response to Merlyn was perfect

 

Merlyn: His brother's outburst was in response to the disrespect shown to his late brother by all the religious blather for someone who wasn't religious.

 

Adrianvs: If the deceased is merely a corpse at this point, then why does it matter if they are disrespected? If it is just a corpse sitting there, then why does it matter what the family or friends do with it or say about it? You seem to care a lot. If Pat gone, then why do his wishes matter? Is it not an object in the custody of the living? Take your dogma to its logical conclusions.

 

All of his previous posts strongly suggest that he aligns himself with the belief or rather non-belief of atheists. Yet, when these questions arise - Merlyn starts to babble about other thingslike How do you know what I believe? He will derail the conversationdirect it down another road, BUT he will not - NO, he cannot answer those questions logically.