What is a Republic?

[WHEELER 10]

There is quite a bit of discrepancy about what a Republic is. Some say it is a parliamentary democracy, others a constitutional democracy, and still others a representative democracy. All these statements are wrong.

 

A Republic is a term coined by Cicero. It is from two Latin words Res(things) and Publica(public). Transliterated from the Latin; it means the public things.

 

But there is another word that our Founding Fathers knew that also typifies this type of government. It is from the Greek and it is politevma. St. Paul uses it twice in the New Testament. Both Cicero and the New Testament (and the Bible in general) had great influence in the formation of America.

 

In Philippians 3:20, St. Paul says, "But our commonwealth is in heaven, ". St. Paul uses the word "politevma'. It is translated into the old English word, the commonwealth. A commonwealth is another word for a republic. Massachusetts, Kentucky and others are not states; their official name is Commonwealths.

 

St. Paul uses this word again in Eph 2.12 when he refers to the state of the Chosen People as the commonwealth of Israel. What is he describing here?

 

God is the King and the judges were the aristocracy, through merit, that governed Israel. And the Law of God, the Torah, ruled the people. The prophet Samuel tried to keep the republic by unsuccessfully dissuading the people from making a monarchy.

 

He is describing a government that is mixed of three elements and a particular mentality. Cicero also terms the republic like this as a mixed form of constitution. (1)

 

A republican form of government is a mixture of the best elements of the three forms of government; the monarchy, the aristocracy and the democracy. Poli in the Greek word means `many'. The period of the judges in Hebrew history is a 'politevma'.

 

 

A 'Politevma' is the Greek word for constitutional government. This word is used by Aristotle in his book, Politics, to describe a Republican form of government.

 

Aristotle records that some people assert that the best constitution must be a combination of all the forms of constitution, therefore praise the constitution of Sparta. (2) He further remonstrates that the better the constitution is mixed, the more permanent it is. (3) The definition he gives for this kind of government is a POLITEIAN; the form intermediate between them which is termed a republic, (mesi de touton in kalousi politeian)for the government is constituted from the class that bears arms. (4) Again, Aristotle states that constitutional government is, to put it simply, a mixture of oligarchy and democracy. (5)

 

Polybius (as also Plato and Aristotle) distinguishes that there are three types of governments "kingship, aristocracy, democracy". Furthermore, like Aristotle, he goes on to state that the best constitution is that "which partakes of all these three elements". (6) "The first to construct a constitution--that of Sparta--on this principle", Lycurgus, with some inspiration from his fellow Doric brothers in Crete (7) created a government that combined an hereditary kingship with body of advisors from the aristocracy and another that represented the rest of the people (the democracy), all being checks and balances on each other.

 

Polybius concludes saying: "The result of this combination has been that the Lacedaemonians retained their freedom for the longest period of any people." (8) and "for securing unity among the citizens, for safeguarding the Laconian territory and preserving the liberty of Sparta inviolate, the legislation and provisions of Lycurgus were so excellent that I am forced to regard his wisdom as something superhuman." (9)

 

The American constitution was derived from Cicero. Michael Grant explicates the significance of Cicero: "This 'mixed' constitution, previously admired by the historian Polybius (to whom Cicero's debts were extensive), reappeared again and again in early discussions of the constitution of the United States of America, figuring prominently, for example, in John Adam's Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States (1787). (10) Coining the term "Republic", Cicero was familiar with Dicaearchus of Messana who wrote a treatise on the mixed constitution of Sparta, the Tripoliticus. (11) Dicaerchus was greatly admired by Cicero.

 

Cicero provides the knowledge train of this history of the tri-political government:

 

This type of discussion, which I am undertaking, derives most of its material from that other philosophical school, of which Plato, was the leader. The men who came after him, Aristotle and Heraclides of Pontus, another follower of Plato, threw light on the whole topic of national constitutions through the inquiries they conducted. Moreover, as you know, Theophrastus, Aristotles disciple SPECIALIZED in this type of investigation; and ANOTHER OF ARISTOTLES PUPILS, DICAEARCHUS, WAS ACTIVE IN THE SAME FIELD OF STUDY. (12)

 

Aristotle does not use the word democracy and republic interchangeably. Neither does Socrates in Plato's Republic. They are quite different institutions.

 

A republic is the rule of law. "...it is preferable for the law to rule rather than any one of the citizens, and according to this same principle, even if it be better for certain men to govern, they must be appointed as guardians of the laws and in subordination to them;... the law shall govern seems to recommend that God and reason alone shall govern..." (13)

 

A democracy puts the people above the law. Aristotle noted, "men ambitious of office by acting as popular leaders bring things to the point of the people's being sovereign even over the laws." (14)

 

The mentalities of these two styles of government are very different and it is an important distinction.

 

Aristotle says in V vii 7 that "constitutional government turns into a democracy". Then, all three, Socrates, Plato and Aristotle warn that, "Tyranny, then arises from no other form of government than democracy." "And Huey Long very penetratingly said that when fascism came to the United States it would call itself democracy". (15)

 

What is the example of this tri-political form of Government in the Constitution?

 

The Presidency is the element of the monarchical office. The House of Representatives is the element of democracy. But what element represents the aristocracy? It was supposed to be the Senate! Originally planned, the senate was supposed to be filled by appointments from the states legislators. The Senate, as originally defined, was supposed to be the inclusion of the natural aristocracy, the landed gentry, AND a representation of states interests, as a corporate entity, in the Federal Government. The Senate was supposed to be a check and balance against the Presidency and the Demos, the House of Representatives. The Senate was supposed to be the real GUARANTEE of the rule of law. The Senate was supposed to be the backbone of the U.S. Constitution.

 

This all changed in l913. Along with the passage of an constitutional amendment of the graduated income tax an idea from Karl Marxs Communist Manifesto, another constitutional amendment was passed. The passage of the XVII amendment fundamentally changed the character of the American government, demolished the checks and balances necessary for good government and converted the American government from a Republic to a democracy. There is now no check on the demos.

 

This is the necessity of a bi-carmel legislative house; i.e. the senate and the representatives. In Article III, sec 4, it states, The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government What does this mean (and is not being practiced or obeyed today)? The Senators of the respective state houses should be appointed by the seats of county government. These appointees should be men of outstanding rank and stature, landed, and knowledgeable; the aristocracy. The States Senate should be not only the representation of the natural aristocracy but also representation of the counties in the State Government. As it stands today, federal governments and state governments are not practicing a tri-political government.

 

 

All human institutions and nature mirror this republican form of government: i.e. the family; father-king, mother-aristocracy, children-demos(16) / the military; officer-king, non-commissioned officers(i.e. Corporals, Sergeants, Gunnery Sgt. etc)-aristocracy, enlisted(Privates, PFC, Lance Corporals)-demos/ Factories; plant manager-king, foremen-aristocracy, workers-demos/ Hospitals; doctor-king, nurse-aristocracy, patients-demos/ Christianity; bishop-king, priests deacons-aristocracy, laity-demos/ Christianity; Jesus-King, clergy-aristocracy, laity-demos/ Nature of the cell; nucleus-king, mitochondria-aristocracy, cytoplasm-demos/ Nature of the body; brain-king, spinal cord-aristocracy, organs and muscles-demos.

 

There is a famous saying in the Military that the Non-commissioned officers are the backbone of the U.S. Military just like on many a family farm, (that I have witnessed) it is the woman that is the hardest working member. The aristocracy is needed in every organization.

 

What is an aristocracy? An aristocracy is the combination of two Greek words: Aristos means the best and kratos means power. Kratos is the same ending for the word democracy. The aristocracy is needed in every human organization. Could the U.S. military operate without a non-commissioned officer corps? Could a family operate well without a mother? Neither can a society operate without an aristocracy.

 

The aristocracy are the professionals in society. Those that exhibit the BEST characteristics of citizenry. They lead by example.

 

This tripartite paradigm is throughout reality. And just like Aristotle says that nature gives evidence of the metaphysical this really is a natural proof of the existence of the Trinity. The Family is One but three persons; the Army is One but of three classes; etc and so forth. There is One God but three Divine Persons.

 

American institutions do not come from Athens but from Sparta, which was heavily influenced by Crete. Just as Crete gave the name of Europe, she is also the birthplace of 'mixed'/constitutional government. Plato discerned that Persia and Athens show the fundamental elements of all political life exaggerated as far as possible in one direction and the other(the one monarchical, the other democratic)the merit of Sparta is that she has been trying to blend them, and has therefore maintained herself for a long time. (17) A republic is really the golden mean between the extremes of democracy and Asian monarchical despotism.

 

These extremes are physical manifestations of the spiritual condition of the state. A Democracys mentality is that the people are sovereign over the laws, which really means that the people are God and the Asian despotism, which was taken up by Alexander the Great, his successors and the Roman Emperors starting with Julius Caesar, is that the king or Emperor makes the law so he is God. Werner Jaeger makes it clear that this is what Socrates sees that A state is never power alone, but always the spiritual structure of the man whom it represents. (18) Both of these extremes show the marks of nihilism.

 

 

In Conclusion

 

Mixed government goes by two English names: Republic or Commonwealth. A Republic is a form of government that has mixed the best elements of a monarchy, aristocracy and democracy. A Republic is tri-political government. It includes all classes in government and excludes none. It provides checks and balances on all so that all live in harmony. A Republic is an harmony of the state.

 

(1) Cicero, On Government, translated by Michael Grant, Penguin Books, NY, l993. On the State, 23-4; pg 180.

 

(2) Aristotle, Politics, Loeb Classical Library, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Mass, 1932 bk II iii 10; 1265b 30-35; Pg 107.

 

(3) Ibid, Bk IV x 4; 1297a 5-10; Pg 339.

 

(4) Ibid, Bk II iii 9; 1265b 25; Pg 105

 

(5) Ibid, Bk IV vi 2; 1293b 30-35; Pg 315

 

(6) The Portable Greek Historians: The Essence of Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, Polybius; edited by M. I. Finley, The Viking Press, NY, NY, l959. Polybius bk VI sec 3; Pg 475

 

(7) Plutarch, The Lives, trans by John Dryden, rev. by Arthur Clough, The Modern Library, NY. Pg 52.

 

(8) Finley, Pg 482

 

(9) Ibid, Bk V sec. 48; Pg 493

 

(10) Cicero, On Government, Pg 7 (in the footnote)

 

(11) Ibid, On Laws III 14-15; Pg 200.

 

(12) Ibid, Pgs 199-200

 

(13) Aristotle, Politics, XXI, trans. by H. Rackham, Loeb Classical Library, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, l990. Politics Bk III, xi3-5; 1287a; Pgs 263-265.

 

(14) Ibid, Politics, Bk V. iv 6; 1305a 30-35; pg 401.

 

(15) Liberty or Equality, Kurt von Kuenhelt-Leddihn, Christendom Press, pg 123.

 

(16) On Divorce, Louis de Bonald, trans by Nicholas Davidson, Transaction Publishers, New Brunswick, NJ, l992. pg 45-46. He uses the words power, minister, and subject. The Christian religion itself, which I shall never cite in the course of this work except to show its conformity with reason calls man the reason, the head, the power of woman: Vir caput est mulieris, says Saint Paul. It call the woman the helper or minister of man: Let us make man, says Genesis, a helper similar to him. It call the child a subject, since it tells it, in a thousand places, to obey its parents.

 

(17) Padeia, The Ideals of Greek Culture, Werner Jaeger, translated by Gilbert Highet, Oxford University Press, NY, l944. Vol III, pg 236. References to Platos Laws 693d-e

 

(18) Ibid, Vol III, pg 234.

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Although history is fascinating, you really should live in the now and not the then.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Again I agree with FOG. (Satan just got hit with a snowball.) Wheeler, not only might you consider living a little more in the here and now, but you might also consider using definitions of words that are accepted in the here and now and not insisting on definitions as they existed 2500 or even 200 years ago, if they've changed or been added to. FOG earlier posted definitions that showed that a "republic" and a "representative democracy" can be the same thing, and in fact they are.

 

You're absolutely right that at one time democracy meant "mob rule" and that the Framers of our Constitution were very concerned about this, and as a result put in all kinds of checks and balances. To be somewhat more realpolitik about it, what they were concerned about was preventing the property rights of the land-holding and merchant classes from being swept away by the superior numbers of the "masses." But both this explanation, and yours, are an oversimplification of the much more complicated process that actually ocurred. I know a lot more about the acts and writings of Hamilton, Madison, Jefferson, Adams et al than I know about Aristotle, Plato, Socrates and Cicero. I don't have time to write an essay now. But if you are trying to imply that the Framers looked at what Cicero wrote and slapped their heads and said, "Yeah, that's the ticket," I'm afraid that's not how it happened. The separation of powers both within the federal government, between the federal and state governments and between the large and small states (as reflected in the existence of two houses of Congress and the different apportionment of each) are all the results of political compromises. Of course the Framers knew about the options presented by philosophical writings, and used them. But when you actually read about what happened, it's pretty interesting to see that Hamilton, basically a monarchist, wanted a President-for-life, while Jefferson (who was in France during the Constitutional convention) questioned the need for a Senate at all, and in the end Madison and others figured out how to make everyone equally unhappy, which is basically how compromises occur.

 

One other thing. A bicameral legislature is NOT necessary for a "Republican form of government." One state, I am pretty sure it is Nebraska, has a unicameral legislature, and I am also pretty sure that there were lawsuits claiming that this violated the "Republican form of government" clause. The courts decided that one house is enough if that's what the people want. I also wonder whether Israel would qualify as a Republic (which it clearly is) under your definition, as it has a one-house legislature, and it really has nothing corresponding to a "king." It does have a president, but he is elected by the legislature and has only ceremonial power, and a prime minister who (after a brief experiment in direct election) also is chosen by the legislature.

 

I'm not even going to get into the part about the mitochondria. You are generally correct that many things in nature and in human relations have a three-part structure, but as with a lot of your other writings, you take a few facts on a trip around several other solar systems and come back sounding like the philosophical equivalent of Buzz Lightyear, Space Ranger.

[WHEELER 10]

"Although history is fascinating, you really should live in the now and not the then."

 

If one says the Pledge of Allegiance, what should one be pledging to?

 

What you are telling me, is that words have no meaning?

 

What you are telling me is that we should accept ignorance and imprecision of detail and definition? You are a leader?

 

Then I give a statement from Benjamin Franklin.

 

Someone ran up to him outside the convention and asked him, "What government are you going to give us?"

 

Mr. Franklin replied, "A republic, if you can keep it." What is he refering to?

 

 

[Bob White 20]

I have no idea what the content of Wheelers post was, but I bet I can guess fairly accurately, sight unseen, that it was a long and arduous read.

 

I think I can be far more compact. The word Republic like most words has multiple meanings. If Wheeler is referring back to our political method of governance then here is the definition according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

 

a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law

 

It not only explains our government it also explains the patrol method of troop operation.

I realize that Merriam-Webster is not known for philosophy, but then Plato wasnt known for his dictionaries.

 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Wheeler says:

 

Then I give a statement from Benjamin Franklin.

 

Someone ran up to him outside the convention and asked him, "What government are you going to give us?"

 

Mr. Franklin replied, "A republic, if you can keep it." What is he refering to?

 

Well, not exactly. You have the answer right, but not the question. Once you know what the question really was, the answer supports what I said to you several posts ago about what "republic" really meant and how you are making too much of the word.

 

Here is what really happened, with the key words in bold:

 

A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, "A republic, if you can keep it."

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Yep, it's Nebraska that's unicameral. Considering that the population of the entire state is equal to the population of my county combined with the county to the east, do they really need more than one house? Heck, they could probably get by with far less than the 49 Senators that they have. My county is run by a council of only 10.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

FOG, my county is run by a board of only five members. In my previous post I was going to comment that governing bodies below the state level (county, municipal, school board, whatever) are generally unicameral throughout the U.S., but then I decided this was irrelevant because none of these are "sovereign" and therefore are not "republics." They are created by state law and could be abolished by state law, or by operation of state law -- such as in many cases where a new municipality can be created by referendum, or a municipal and county government can merge by referendum. But they can only do so because state law says they can. Both the states and the federal goverment, however, are sovereign -- with limitations placed on the sovereignty of each by the U.S. Constitution.

 

My county governing body, though not a republic, is nevertheless all-Republican. At one point in the last century, it was chaired by Christine Todd Whitman, future former administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

[Adrianvs 10]

I thought that Aristotle supported the governmental system of Aristocracy because it meant "Rule by Aristotle."

 

 

Hmm...

[WHEELER 10]

Still no one can figure out why Benjamin Franklin said, "A Republic, if you can keep it".

 

What does he mean "If you can keep it"? What is he referring to?

It is obvious that 2300 year old dead men did have an impact on the Founding Fathers. One person I think Adrianvs even said he studied Plato. The current opinion is that we don't have to listen to dead men, yet this was not the opinion of the Founding Fathers. How can one understand this country and its government, if moderns reject what the Founding Fathers accepted?

 

What does this mean "If you can keep it?" I ask you to read your book in Genesis what other word was used for the reason God put man in the Garden? There is a correlation here.(This message has been edited by WHEELER)

[OldGreyEagle 5]

"every time I think I am getting out, He pulls me back in"

Michael Correleone Godfather III (paraphased)

 

Wheeler, in the thread Women in the BSA in response to my request to listen to B-P's voice recording where he clearly invites women to be scoutmasters you replied

 

"...BP was not perfect but his program can be perfected."

 

You reject women in the BSA, by this statement and others you have made.

 

In this thread, you write

 

"The current opinion is that we don't have to listen to dead men, yet this was not the opinion of the Founding Fathers. How can one understand this country and its government, if moderns reject what the Founding Fathers accepted?"

 

So the question I put to you is this, if Franklin, Madison, Jefferson et al put tremoundous stock in what dead men said over 2, 000 years ago regarding government and the framers of the constitution are to be respected. (And I agree they should be) Why won't you respect the words of Boy Scouts founder? How can one understand the Boy Scout movement and its governing principles if moderns reject what the Founding Father said?

 

 

As far as whether or not the system of government the US has is a classic republic or not, our government is what it is.

 

Adlai Stevenson once observed that in a democracy (if you disagree with the word democracy, please argue it out with Adlai, another dead guy so he can't be wrong)people get the government they deserve. So the US is run the way the people deserve, when we think we deserve different, we change it.

 

So, what is the purpose of arguing whether or not the US is a Classic Republic unless its to fulfill some esoteric niche in the pantheon of time?

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[NJCubScouter 1389]

OK Wheeler, you go first: What do you think Benjamin Franklin meant? And what do you base your opinion on?

[evmori 11]

I personally think Wheeler has entirely too much time on his/her/its hands! I also think those who can't see all the post should not comment on those post they can't see!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[WHEELER 10]

Benjamin Franklin is refering to Plato's Republic. There Socrates talks about the KYKLOS. (Cycle in proper English)

 

It goes Monarchy, Constitutional Government, Democray, Tyranny.

 

America went from Monarchy, To a Republic, is now a Democracy, Tyranny is the next step.

 

What causes the turning is the character of men. When men change their character, the state does also.

 

Rome started out; Monarchy, Republic, small interlude of left/right civil wars, Juluis Caesar stepped in and inaugurated 500 years of despotism. Where the government was god.

 

God put man in the garden to "cultivate and keep". Benjamin Franklin said, "If you can keep". Keep means to guard. It means to be obedient. When men become effeminate, they can't keep anything. Democracy is the sign of nihilism and the lack of the rule of law. Benjamin Franklin is refering to keeping the Kyklos from turning.

 

The wheel is spinning spinning spinning and ignorant and effeminate men can't stop it nor keep the Republic.

 

Also picked up the merit badge book, "Citizenship in the Nation".

 

pg 5. "The United States is a republic--citizens elect individuals to represent them".

 

"---citizens elect individuals to represent them" is not a definition of a republic. This is false. A Scout is Trustworthy. One can't even trust the organization.

 

pg 5 "The USA has evolved into the greatest democratic nation in the world." Really?? Where in the Federalist papers is democracy looked on with favor? No where. Among the classics? No where except at Athens.

 

pg 5 "their democratic heritage". How about our Republican heritage?

 

On page 32 of the booklet, it mentions social security. Can someone in the Boy Scout program please tell me where in section 8 of article I where the duty of the federal government is to take care of old people? Please someone. A Scout is Obedient. The 10th amendment reads, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people". Taking care of old people are the responsibility of families NOT the federal government.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

So, why do you discard B-P's invitation for women to be scoutmasters ?