evmori 11 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Tried & failed because some wanted to be more common than others! Link to post Share on other sites
captainron14 11 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Very Sad! Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 732 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 All people are "created equal". Where you go from there is up to you. In our city, we have "magnet" schools and kids who are labeled "gifted". They know who they are and refer to themselves as gifted, and the other kids also have figured out that they are "not gifted", since they don't get on a bus at noon and go across town to the special programs at the magnet school. I find this fundamentally offensive, especially in a public school system. I believe that all public schools should provide the same opportunities to all students. If the parents want additional special programs for their "gifted" progeny, they should foot the bill. When they get to the "real world", they will have to interact with people of all types and abilities, not just their own, elite gifted peers. Their success in the world will be based on what they produce, and the value that society has placed on that product. It will not be based on their self esteem, labels, or IQ. Link to post Share on other sites
LovetoCamp 9 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 We need all the scientists and engineers the country can produce to keep us competitive. Why do high tech programming jobs get shipped to India? Could it be they have talented programmers in a more available labor pool? We have to stop dumbing down America and stress math and science. If we don't it'll be our grandkids heading south over the Rio Grande looking for work. Link to post Share on other sites
molscouter 10 Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 scoutldr, Do you feel the same way about those kids in "special" education? Gifted education can be viewed as another form of special ed, just on the opposite end of the scale. While all people are created equal in terms of rights, they are not created equal in terms of abilities. There were thousands of college basketball players who took the court today at an ability level I can't even fathom. Likewise, there are any number of concert pianists, ballet dancers and atomic scientists performing at an equally high level. These people have undoubtedly worked hard to hone their God-given talents, but they had to have talent to begin with. (This message has been edited by molscouter) Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 I agree with the previous two posts. Gifted & Talented programs are essential for developing the best and brightest of our kids to their fullest potential. These programs help build the leaders of tomorrow, just as Boy Scouting does. The difference here is that it is education-oriented, and should be part of the school program. It also helps to prevent these kids from getting burned out (or is it "bored out") of school. Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 "We have to stop dumbing down America and stress math and science." The problem with this approach is that you wind up with the talentless creating mediocre products. Engineering and programming are like art in that you need to have the "knack" to make it work. Anyone can be taught to be a cookbook programmer or engineer but good ones are born, not made. Link to post Share on other sites
CubsRgr8 10 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 scoutldr, if you don't like how G&T programming is run in your school district, do something about it instead of maligning those children who need it. Yes, that's right, G&T children NEED specialized education, no less than every other child needs an education that tailored to their abilities. Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 As a parent of a student identified as "gifted and talented" and one who is in "special ed" (though really no less bright, but her emotional problems prevent her from living up to her "talents" in any consistent way), I just want to add my vote to Cubs, Eagle and molscouter and disagree with scoutldr. Both of these children have "special needs" that our school system seeks to address with special programs. The difference is that the programs for my daughter are mandated by law, while the "enriched" classes to which my son is assigned are mostly a product of my district's commitment to providing a suitable education to all children. The "gifted and talented" program in my district is always controversial, however, because there are always those who think it is not "fair." What would not have been "fair," however, would have been to require my son to continue to sit in a class where the kids were learning what he and a few others already knew. Just as it would not be "fair" to my daughter to require her to learn everything as fast as if she was in a "regular" class, when her "problems" prevent her from doing so. Now, finally after several years of this, she is at the point where she has shown that she can fit in to a regular class from at least an academic standpoint, and this is being looked into for next year. Oh, and my oldest child (who was in a "regular" class in school and never really applied herself) just racked up her third straight semester on the dean's list, so I hope that the "no honor roll" movement does not spread to public colleges anytime soon. I was blessed with children with a variety of "gifts," obviously. Link to post Share on other sites
Fuzzy Bear 12 Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 James came to my class everyday ready to work. He was a quiet 17 year old that had struggled in school from his first day. He had trouble reading, writing, and with math. Since I taught a shop class that was federally funded, the students had to have scored below the 25%tile on a Standardized Achievement test. James matched the criteria. James worked by himself on projects of his own choosing. I had only one other student that could do that and that was an Honor student that somehow had failed one test and he had qualified also. The behaviors of both students were fairly compatible. They would come to class, read the assignment, complete the written and the math portions, hand it in, and quickly begin their work in the shop. The difference was the Honor student needed guidance but James didn't. The Honor student excelled at special projects that no other student I had ever attempted. James took a different course; he would find things, motors and such, around the room and quietly work on them until they were fixed. I was truly amazed at James abilities and interest. I was sure that no other teacher ever had the opportunity to discover this secret about him. During that year and without knowing it, James learned to read, write and do math that he had never been motivated to do before. He went on to high school the next year but lasted only one semester. When James was returned to the regular curriculum, he simply didn't have the heart to do it. He dropped out of school and went his way to get married and work several short term entry level jobs. The federal funding cycle ended and the school district chose to not fund my program. They elected to have strictly a general academic curriculum for all students. I went my way to try and find another program similar to the one I had left. The main reason was because of James. My experience working with a type of genius and with the potential that I know existed in him, made me want to reach out to others that have the same talents and to assist them. I am now working with students in a different capacity. I see the results of a curriculum that is geared only for certain types of students on a daily basis. Living in a country that has huge financial resources makes me wonder why we would want to waste the talents of so many individuals just because our belief is in one standard for all. I have been given the gift of seeing genius of a different type and I am still in wonder. It is my hope that we discover the next frontier which is the potential of people in general. I believe we are so blessed with riches that we fail to appreciate what is right before our eyes. FB Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I was reminded of this thread when I was reading the paper and found that nearly 2/3 of the students at the local high school had made the honor roll. I guess that remaining 1/3 feel left out. Actually, I'm wondering what sort of grading system they have that can put 2/3 of the school on the honor roll. Kinda destroys the idea of a "C" being "average." Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Before everyone continues to bash Tennessee, ask yourself one question: Do you feel your child(ren)s grades should be public or remain private? If private, honor rolls do violate that privacy to a certain extent. In today's litigious society, that is what Tennessee lawmakers are worried about. And FOG, I studied my proverbial rear end off to become an engineer and no, I don't consider myself a "cookbook" engineer. Yes, some of us are born with the raw materials to become something but for many of us, that still includes much perspiration to get our inspiration. Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Grades are never private for long. Link to post Share on other sites
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