mk9750 11 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Ron, Taking your description of the situation at face value, and assuming he didn't satisfy the leadership requirement earlier in his career as a Life Scout, I would do everything in my power to protest this boy making Eagle Scout. Now, if there are valid points to his side of the aurgument... Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Ron, Your post doesn't tell us if his advancement has been refused at the unit level yet. Presuming it has not here is my suggestion. meet with the scout in a Board of Review ask him if he has satisfied the requirements for active participation and active leadership and to give examples to support his view. If he says no or if he cannot get the board to unanimously agree that all requirements have been met then deny the advancement at this time. In doing so you have a requirement to tell the scout which requirement he has not met and give him a specific action plan that would allow him to meet the requirement (time permitting). The scout is then free to appeal the decision of the board by writing to the council advancement chair. Upon review the council Advancement committee will either uphold the findings of the board or require a new board with a council representative chairing the procedure. Without knowing the exact details the scout would have a 50/50 chance of advancing on appeal. However his chance of a waiver on the activity and leadership requirements are extremely thin. I can tell you from personal conversations with the national director of Boy scout advancement, unless the unit leaders have really screwed up most appeals are rejected, and unless he can produce a written physicians evaluation that shows he is physically or mentally unable to fulfill a requirement then the waiver will not be allowed. The first step is the Board of Review and the sooner the better. Hope this helps, Bob White PS Ron, If you look at past posts, I don't jump on Ed "all the time". But sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. Ed claims to be a trained leader who has even trained others, yet his posts show some very 'unique' methods of leadership that are not at all reflective of the scouting program. Sometimes my patience level with such behavior is overwhelmed. Perhaps it should have been addressed through a private message and I will keep that in mind in the future. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutmaster Ron 12 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I dont think I can sit in on his BOR since I'm an ASM..or can I? Bob, Your raise 2 excellent questions that I will be sure to ask to the CC if it proceeds further Link to post Share on other sites
molscouter 10 Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Bob, earlier in the thread you made the statement: "In Webelos the son of the Webelos leader would have the same ability if there were not a requirement to attend meetings." In my Webelos den last year, I required my son to go to my assistant to get most everything signed off, and I required her son to come to me. The rest of the boys could go to either one of us. My reasoning was that both of them had to learn to talk/demonstrate/whatever to someone other than a parent that the requirements were met. The main exceptions were those where the requirement said discuss with your parent whatever, but it worked well. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Hi molscouter, That's fine, but as you probably know it is not required for you to do that. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted August 22, 2003 Author Share Posted August 22, 2003 "Ed claims to be a trained leader who has even trained others, yet his posts show some very 'unique' methods of leadership that are not at all reflective of the scouting program. Sometimes my patience level with such behavior is overwhelmed. Perhaps it should have been addressed through a private message and I will keep that in mind in the future. BW" Unique, huh? In what way, Bob? The Scout handbook definition of "active" is vague & open to interpretation. All I did was present one interpretation. If that is unique to you then so be it! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori) Link to post Share on other sites
molscouter 10 Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Bob, Yes, I know it's not required. Just kind of triggered in my mind after reading Ron's statement of not being on his son's BOR as as ASM. It also assures I'm not being any easier or tougher on him than anyone else. Anyone wondering why this thread is in the Issues section? Seems like it ought to be under Advancement. Link to post Share on other sites
dan 10 Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 molscouter It is in the Issues section, because the last 3 times in was discussed, it went pretty much the same way as it did this time. If I remember correctly the same posters said the same thing the last 2 times also. And it gets a little heated, so I say yes it is in the correct forum! An ASM should not sit on a BOR. The BOR should be staffed by Committee members. Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Ron -- did I understand you to say that the boy just made Life and is already within 6 months of his 18th birthday? If he was 17 1/2 plus one day or older, all the rest is moot. Link to post Share on other sites
purcelce 11 Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 "An ASM should not sit on a BOR. The BOR should be staffed by Committee members." What do you do if you don't have enough committee members? That has happend in our troop a few times. ASMs have sat on on a few BORs. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 The Board of review must consist of a minimum of three committee members. If you do not have at least three committee members you cannot charter as a Boy Scout Troop. Your problem sounds more like a committee chairperson and COR's problem than a SM;s problem. In a troop, like any community, every person has a responsibility to help the community succeed. The CC and COR need to learn their job and do it, so that the boys can have a quality program. My recommendation is to tell the CC and COR that Board of Reviews require 3 committee members. Until they make that happen they are hurting the boys and the troop. When a parent wants to know why their son isn't advancing I would tell them that the Committee has not been able to get enough parents interested in helping the troop for the them to fulfill even their basic duties. Nothing recruits more effectively than the truth. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted August 24, 2003 Author Share Posted August 24, 2003 If this Scout just earned Life and he is 17 1/2 and a day it is mathematically impossible for him to earn his Eagle which makes the rest of this moot! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
dan 10 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Scoutmaster Ron You wrote ...has provided no leadership in any of the positions he is in I think you meant have been in? If this scout has had leadership positions and was not removed from the position for lack of leadership. You would be wrong in questioning this after the fact. He served in the position and earned it. The troop allowed him to "skate" that is not his fault but the troops. Please tell us, if he has had a leadership position, or is in a leadership position. If he has one now, it is not to late for the SM to take him aside and explain what is expected of him to complete this requirement. Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutmaster Ron 12 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Lets see if I can answer some of these questions.. Scout is within 6 months proably less than that from becoming 18 Has not attend an outing for at least a year Has attend meetings only when his dad (committee member) has to do a board of review and when he does attend he hides in the corner to talk to other older scouts Just turned life scout 7 months before bday (guessing here but will ddouble check) PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS: I have been in the troop now for approx 2.5 - 3yrs and have yet to see him exhibit any leadership skills..sure he could have done it without myself being aware of it but like I said never seen it. Our troop does not do a good job in making sure the boys with leadership positions acutlaly perform their duties... What I did hear is that our Charter Rep was going to write to our Council Office to ask them if they could waive the 6 month requirement for Life if he really worked on his Eagle I feel I should express my opionion to the Committee and to the Counmcil if in fact this is true. I think Bob summed it up by asking the boy if he felt he completed the requirements and to explain examples of leadership. Link to post Share on other sites
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