What is Active????

[OldGreyEagle 5]

If a scout is "active" enough to make it to Star, then he has been "active" enough for the BSA. I dont see the issue.

[evmori 11]

Active enough to make Star doesn't need to be that active. A Scout is required to participate in 10 Troop/Patrol activities other that Troop/Patrol meetings to earn 1st Class. All the requirements for all the ranks up to 1st Class can be completed by showing up 10 times! And you would consider that active?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

Ed, look at the requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class. How could a scout advance without being present at meetings and activities?

 

How many does he need to be at to advance? Enough to meet the written requirements...no more..no less.

 

The reason cubs have activity requirements is that since any Akela can sign off requirements it would techniquely possible for a Cub to advance without ever attending a meeting if it were not for the activity requirement. In Webelos the son of the Webelos leader would have the same ability if there were not a requirement to attend meetings.

 

That same circimstances do not exist in Tenderfoot to First Class due to the restricions on who can sign and the troop and patrol activities built into the requirements.

 

A Star, Life and Eagle's advancement is based on merit badges and service to community, all of which can be done without meeting or activity attendance. even the requirement for actively serve in a leadership position can be accomplished without meeting attendance depending on the job and troop structure.

 

So the BSA has a time requirement during which the scout needs to show his active participation in patrol and troop activities.

 

Bob White

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I guess there must be something pathologically wrong with a group of people who love whipping the same old dead horse, but whip away I shall:

 

Ed, I guess the point, issue, or question isnt whether or not you, I , Bob White, et al would consider a scout active, its whether or not the scout has met the requirements. If indeed a scout can make First Class by showing up 10 times to troop events then he is active enough to be First Class if all the requirements are signed, the Scoutmaster conference has been done and the Board of Review completed. Its not the Ed Scouts of America, or the OldGreyEagle Scouts of America, and even not the Bob White Scouts of America. Its the Boy Scouts of America and we as leaders pledged/pledge ourselves to follow their rules, not the rules we want to have.

[evmori 11]

"How could a scout advance without being present at meetings and activities?"

 

There is no requirement that must be completed at meetings. They can all be completed at other Troop/Patrol activities.

 

It is technically possible for a Boy Scouts to advance without ever attending a Troop/Patrol meeting, too!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

Hear! Hear! Well said brother bird. Let's all follow what the program is, not what we each think it is or should be.

 

(note to self: OGE says it is not the Bob White Scouts of America. Must call national office in Irving to confirm.)

[Laurie 10]

Ed, I happen to follow your thinking and agree with it on the Webelos to Scouts transition and definition of active. However, that said, there are several significant changes that might make the definition vague:

 

1. A boy is supposed to advance at his own rate, going to the leader authorized to sign his book rather than Akela (which could be a parent, teacher, or almost any adult).

 

2. A boy in Scouts has from age 11 to age 18 to advance to Eagle, if that is the goal he has set.

 

3. A boy in Scouts is expected to be more independent than a boy in Cubs. In Cubs, particularly Webelos, they are just preparing for that independence.

 

So, vague--yep, I agree. With reason? Maybe. And I agree with you that a boy cannot advance without attending meetings. He may not even be motivated. In my son's short time in Scouting, he started off well, advancing a little each week while he attended weekly meetings. Then summer came along, and that meant he missed some meetings. He stopped in his advancements, didn't pick up his book when he knew he was missing meetings, and he even missed a trip due to missing a meeting. He didn't get the info in time. He is settled back into a routine, and he is advancing again, and doing so consistently. So, if a boy isn't there, will he advance? Maybe, but it would be harder and not nearly as much fun. To top it all off, when my son missed meetings, he forgot to fulfill a responsibility his patrol had assigned to him. Another boy did it instead; they got tired of waiting. He also recently told me about elections for SPL. It seems that the boys who miss meetings are the ones the boys do not want to vote for. Their reason? Simple according to the boys' discussion: when the patrol leaders are missing, the program suffers for everyone, regardless of rank. A lot has been learned in a short time, and I think that though the book is vague and it is not our opinions that decide what takes place, we can safely acknowledge that boys only advance when they are active--as in present...often.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[Fat Old Guy 11]

This has been an ongoing discussion in my troop for many years. For a long time, I supported the idea of "activity requirements" because I don't like the idea of kids joining organizations but never actively supporting or participating. However, after this lenghty discussion here, I've come to agree with Bob White and OGE. Well, to a certain amount.

 

What do you do with a Star Scout who has done his time in a POR but then vanishes for three years. His dues checks roll in so he remains registered. Suddenly, he appears, gets a blue card and vanishes. Six months later, he shows up again and with the last blue card that he needs for life and he wants to be promoted.

 

The requirements don't say "be active in the troop." They simply say, "serve actively . . . for 6 months" He has fullfilled the letter of the requirements but has he met the spirit or the intent of the requirements?

 

Maybe when Bob White calls Texas to check on the name of the organization, he could suggest that something be added to the requirements that a Scout actually has to be active with his troop before advancement can occur.

[Bob White 20]

"The requirements don't say "be active in the troop." They simply say, "serve actively . . . for 6 months" He has fullfilled the letter of the requirements but has he met the spirit or the intent of the requirements?"

 

FOG, you are obviously unfamiliar with the advancement requirements as you have confused two separate requirements. Please review a handbook and you will see there are separate requirements for being active in your troop and patrol, and for actively serving in a leadership position. So no, you cannot advance without being active.

 

ED,

You really need to read the handbook and get some training. For your amount of time in the program you display minimal comprehension of how a unit functions, the process of advancement and the methods of leadership.

 

In the advancement program a scout 1)learns 2)is tested 3) is reveiwed and 4)is recognized. If you know a way to do these things without attending any meetings or activities than you are not operating a troop scouting program.

 

Bob White

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Scoutmaster Ron 12]

How does a scout serve activly if he never attends a meeting? Does he do the PlC by conference call? Unless he has a unique leadership position that allows him to do it by home.

The only example I can think of is Den Chief? Does anyone one have others. I would really appreciate it if someone has an example of how someone can 'serve activily w/o attending meetings-outings.

 

P.S. Bob,

Maybe your criticism to Ed should have been a private message to him..kinda rough on the guy.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Bob White, you're absolutely right. It is #1, I thought it was there but I was looking on-line and that requirement scrolled off the page.

 

By the way Bob White, I've specifically asked you to not address or refer to me as "FOG." Evidently, the Scout Law does not apply to you.

[Laurie 10]

I find this thread to be very helpful. Ed is right: the term "active" in Scouts is open to interpretation. What I appreciate is being able to "think out loud" here to better understand what that means. The input and the questions from experienced Scouters helps me to be a better Scouter.

[Bob White 20]

Laurie

The requirement is interpreted in the Boy scout Handbook. It is open to flexible application based on the needs and characteristics of the scout.

 

Two examples,

scout #1 is not involved in any extra-curricular activities, attends every meeting, refuses any opportunity to take a leadership role, does not offer input during troop or patrol discussions and does not make use of advancement opportunities. Doesn't cause trouble, just likes to come and play games and campout.

 

This scout does not contribute to the success of the patrol or troop and is not "active" in scouting.

 

Scout #2 is the SPL who for the last 3 months of his 6 month tenure is involved in sports at school. He is unable to make Troop meetings due to his practice schedule and meets keep him from most the outdoor activities. He keeps in touch regularly at school with his assistant and the troop meetings and outings always have a planned agenda. He is currently working on three merit badges with teachers at his school.

 

Even though I have rarely seen him in almost 12 weeks he is contributing to the success of the unit and is active in his contributions and pursuit of scouting.

 

How do you make this determination. You talk with the scouts. You find out about their lives, you teach them about responsible citizenship and how it relates to being a member of a group, and you reflect with them on their contribution to the patrol and troop.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Bob White

[evmori 11]

Bob,

Been to training. Have been a trainer.

 

"In the advancement program a scout 1)learns 2)is tested 3) is reveiwed and 4)is recognized. If you know a way to do these things without attending any meetings or activities than you are not operating a troop scouting program."

 

A Scout can learn by reading the handbook in his room. He can be tested, reviewed and recognized when he attends on of the 10 required outings for rank. There is no requirement to attend Troop or Patrol meetings. Should a Troop run this way? By no means. Ths point I am trying to make is the definition of active in the Boy Scout handbook is vague while the Webelos requirement is better defined.

 

Ron,

No big deal! Bob does that all the time.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Scoutmaster Ron 12]

The problem I have with one scout in my troop is that he is at Life Class turns 18 in 6 months or less and still hopes to make Eagle..(mostly his father) he rarely comes to meetings let's say 1 in 3 months and thats only when his father has to do a board of review...has provided no leadership in any of the positions he is in and attends no PLC..the rumour I heard and it's only a rumour is that "someone" was going to ask the council office for a exemption.

Would I be right if this went down liek this to object formally to the committee?

Granted there are two sides to each story and the facts may be vague but I would like to hear yur opionions