The "old" WB course?

[Jeffrey H 25]

As I read this forum, there are occasional references to the "old" WB course. What was different about the "old course"? Is the new course better or worse?

 

For those of you who think the new course is better, give me a good sell so I can decide whether to take WB or not in the coming year.

[jr56 92]

In the "old days" there were 2 wood badge courses. One for boy scout leaders and one for cub scout leaders. The new course combines the 2 and is generic for all scout leaders (cub scout, boy scout, venturing etc..)

I'm sure there are lots of people out there with more experience than I who can be more specific.

[Eagle69 46]

That depends on which "Old Course" they are talking about. I did a walking WB in 1978 and when other leaders that I knew took WB in the 80's theirs was slightly different. The whole course was done totally outdoors teaching you leadership fundamentals while in a patrol environment. Almost everything that went on was scripted in such a way as to try and get you to understand what it was they were trying to teach. Parts of it were a game, but it all had purpose. It took my patrol the whole course to get our act together so we made formation on time and didn't get sung to for being late. You still had the "Ticket", but based on what I read here, what it involved is totally different from what it is today.

[Lisabob 13]

Jeff, The current WB course has been the standard for the last 6 years or so("WB for the 21st Century"). The "old" WB course that most people I know are referring to is the one that was in place during the 1990s. Aside from the segregation of cubs vs. boy scout leaders, the major difference in content is that the "old" troop-level WB course focused a great deal more on outdoor skills, while the "new" WB (for all leaders) focuses much more on leadership skills. There are pockets of people who have expressed the sentiment that the current course is "soft" as a result. My take is that it probably isn't better or worse, just different. But better, worse, whatever, the current course is the only course out there. And personally I found it to be extremely worth while.

 

Lisa'bob

[OldGreyEagle 5]

if you are merely contemplating Wood Badge, contemplate no more, sign up now. I have my axes to grind about some of the good ol' boys who think the current Wood Badge is for sissies, but with that said where else can you join in with literally scores of other adults who are as addicted to scouting as you are and are there to improve the program? You will meet people who will be great resources in the future and meet people you will always see at District and Council events. My Wood Badge experience was terrific, I wouldnt exchange it for anything. Having been in Management for 20 years, the actual leadership skills were a repeat of the "latest" management styles, but if you have never had these principles presented, its very worthwhile, and you get to meet people who are as nuts over scouting as you are, did I mention that already? Its ok, it bears repeating anyway.

 

Dont look at it as which course was better, look at it as a way to network with people and get to know a whole load of people who are as nuts about scouting as you are!

[Eagledad 2780]

"My take is that it probably isn't better or worse, just different."

 

I agree with everything Lisabob says, and not because my name was Barrybob in my first course.

 

The old WB course also taught leadership skills, but they were pretty much were all personal skills. The present course, while spends some time on personal skills, spends a lot of time on team developement skills and team leadership skills. To me the main difference is the new course teaches concepts that apply equally to new units struggling to get get momentum as well as the units already cruising from successful leadership.

 

Barry

[Jeffrey H 25]

Thanks for your input. Based on what all of you are telling me, it seems that Woodbadge is not what I thought it was. I realize I have to take what I get, but the old course with more emphasis on outdoor skills sounds more interesting to me and more of what Baden-Powell would have emphasized. Even the name "Woodbadge" implies something that is rugged and outdoors. The heart of Scouting has always been an emphasis on the outdoors and outdoor skills. I expected the top training course for scout leaders to offer the same emphasis.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

I understand where you are coming from. However, keep in mind that the aims of scouting are character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness, and not knot tying, camping, and cooking. The outdoors is simply the setting within which these less tangible goals are taught, modeled, and practiced. Much of the WB for the 21st Century focuses on helping leaders figure out how to build and execute a program that will reach these aims.

 

As for learning outdoor skills, well I am all for more outdoor skills training - lots more, more is better, the more the merrier, and so on. However, there are many opportunities to get that training, both in and out of scouting. There are not any other leadership development courses like WB, at least not in the framework of scouting. But if you are looking for outdoor skills training at this time, let me suggest you take OLS if you haven't already done so. I think I remember you saying you are currently a cub leader; if so you may also want to take the Webelos Leader Outdoor Training (or whatever your council is calling it these days - the name keeps changing around here).

 

Lisa'bob

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

I took the old WB which is no longer a choice. I am glad they improved it. FB

[BadenP 93]

In my humble opinion participating in the "old" wb and being on staff on wb for the 21st century I agree that the current course probably should put more emphasis on outdoor skills, however I agree with OGE that where else can you meet and exchange ideas with other scouters who love the program. My belief is that it is the quality of the instructors that make or break the course. As Nike says,"Just do it." you will not be sorry.

[dancinfox 10]

I took the "Old" Wood Badge Boy Scout Leader and the Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge. The Cub Scout Trainer course taught me to be a better trainer by helping me find better ways to present training sessions. This not only was used in Cub Scout training, but also when I became a Boy Scout Leader trainer and staffing Wood Badge courses. The Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge taught me the 11 leadership skills. Knowing and Using your resourses, communicating, understanding the characteristics and needs of the group, planning, controlling the group, effective teaching, representing the group, evaluating, sharing leadership, setting the example, and how to counsel. These eleven leadership skills were taught by instruction and using some outdoor skills instruction. As I remember, these outdoor skills were not so detailed as to make you an expert, but were used to help you understand the leadership skills being taught. As to which Wood Badge is better? Each one I took or have taught are great. As I said, Cub Scout Trainer WB taught me to be a better trainer as intended, and Boy Scout Leader WB taught me to be a better Boy Scout Leader working with youth. 21st Century WB teaches one to be a totaly better leader, not only working with youth, but also with adults. Not only in a Scouting enviroment, but also at work and in your personal life. I do believe I have become a better person and Scout Leader for having staffed the course and understanding what is truly being taught. In working New Leader Essentials, and Specific training, I see the corolation to WB. Also in the NYLT.

David Harrison

[Crew21_Adv 25]

Jeffrey H,

 

Greetings!

 

My experience...

I am fortunate enough to have taken the old WB course in the 80's, and staffed the old WB course in the 90's. Then Staff the WB for the 21st Century a few more times these recent years.

 

I would say that the differences are simply cosmetic. They appear as "new and improved" games on the outside, but inside WB has the "tradition and tested" focus and agenda.

 

The BSA works hard with public and professional educators to keep up with the most current leadership styles. Essentially these are the same top dollar leadership seminars that you will get in New York City all the way to Los Angeles.

 

The leadership styles and literature have changed with the times. However, in the new WB a participant still learns leadership skills. The participant still reinforces them in a game or task at the den/patrol/team size, and then at the larger Pack/Troop/Crew size during the course.

 

The ticket process also has not really changed, you still write out Scouting goals and plans to improve yourself and your Pack, Troop, Team or Crew.

 

Scouters will attend Wood Badge for different reasons. But the bottom line is, there should be some skills that the participant can take home to improve their Scout unit; and allow our boys to grow into mature men with character, citizenship and good fitness.

 

Is the new course better or worse? I won't answer that. I will say it reflects current trends.

 

As you asked, Without saying the new course is better (or worse), I will offer a good sell.

 

You as a Scouter will improve, your Troop will improve and your son(s) will benifit from it. Take the course.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[emb021 16]

Background: I attended Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge in 1988, and staffed Wood Badge for the 21st Century in 2004.

 

 

As others have pointed out, there have been several "old" WB courses. Originally (1950s), WB was a course for council-level trainers, as you could only attend it at Schiff or Philmont. Also, during the 1950s there was Explorer WB, as the Explorer program was more of an advanced BS program then it later became.

 

In the 1960s, WB was finally made available to Scoutmasters and those scouters supporting troop ops, from either council or cluster-council courses.

 

In the 1970s, leadership skills were added. Further revisions produced the 1980s course which balanced scoutcraft skills and leadership skills. Also, about this time Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge was developed, then Varsity Scout Wood Badge. Explorer leaders, left out of WB, developed Explorer Leader Institute, and Sea Scout leaders developed Sea Badge.

 

(I should note that Cub Scout Trainer WB was NOT for Pack-level leaders, but for council-level Cub Scout Trainers, and was given at the Regional levels).

 

There was a minor revision the 1990s, adding in Ethics in Action and the concept of 'teach them, trust them, let them lead' or something like that.

 

21st Centuary WB was rolled out in 2001, for ALL scout leaders, eliminating BSLWB, CSTWB, and VSWB, or the need for ELI. Sea Badge still exists, btw.

 

 

Now, there have been a lot of changes, big and small, good and bad. Some of the changes have been on the back end, in how the staff is dealt with, etc. Participants don't know this, but in the old days, by policy, it was very hard to get on staff. local council policies could either make this easier or harder. Plus, staff had to do a ticket to earn their third bead. Now, courses are mandated to have 1/4 of its staff be new. And once you are a CD, you're out. No more 4 beaders continuing to run courses and preventing others from being CD.

 

Some of the changes have been due to the audience. WB is no longer aimed solely at Boy Scout leaders. they have Cub Scout and Venturing people. Hence the incorporate of Cub Scouting stuff at the begining and Venturing toward the end. Because not many Cub Scouts are strong in scoutcraft skills (true for some Venturing people), you can't emphasis this as much as in the past. Leadership skills are the focus, and leadership development has been brought up to date with the current thinking on both leadership and teamwork.

 

Much of the traditions of WB have been kept (song, wb patrols, beads, etc).

 

I have my issues with how they revised it, but I'm not a 'hater' of it like some of the 'old guard' are. I staffed a course and would like to staff again.

 

Hope this helps.

[Kudu 186]

Jeffrey H writes:

 

Based on what all of you are telling me, it seems that Woodbadge is not what I thought it was. I realize I have to take what I get, but the old course with more emphasis on outdoor skills sounds more interesting to me and more of what Baden-Powell would have emphasized. Even the name "Woodbadge" implies something that is rugged and outdoors. The heart of Scouting has always been an emphasis on the outdoors and outdoor skills. I expected the top training course for scout leaders to offer the same emphasis.

 

Jeffrey,

 

Modern BSA Wood Badge, which is based on the idea that Scouting leadership can be broken down into a set of abstract managerial skills best taught in a catered classroom rather than in the context of traditional Patrol activities in the great outdoors, has its origin in 1972 when the original Methods of Scouting as written by William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt were replaced by a new modern and "scientific" approach to Scouting.

 

The new Scoutmaster's Handbook summed it up neatly:

 

In general, Patrol Leader training should concentrate on leadership skills rather than on Scoutcraft Skills. The Patrol will not rise and fall on the Patrol Leader's ability to cook, follow a map, or do first aid, but it very definitely depends on his leadership skill (Scoutmaster's Handbook [1972], page 155), See:

 

http://inquiry.net/leadership/index.htm

 

In Traditional Baden-Powell Wood Badge, participants earned one bead for the "Theoretical" course, and an additional bead for the "Practical" course. This Practical course was divided by Baden-Powell into four subject areas: Troop Ceremonies, Fieldcraft, Woodcraft, and Signcraft. Much of the content of the Traditional Baden-Powell Wood Badge Practical course can be found on my Web site, "The Inquiry Net," see:

 

http://inquiry.net/traditional/leader/index.htm

 

As far as "you have to take what you can get" goes, it depends on what you want. Yes, if you want official BSA recognition, networking with local Scouters, and the convenience of a local course, then BSA Wood Badge is the way to go. In fact, since "Wood Badge for the 21st Century" is based on pop managerial theory books like The One Minute Manager, some companies even give their employees a week's paid leave to attend!

 

On the other hand, if you are sincerely interested in a Wood Badge course with the emphasis on outdoor skills that Baden-Powell placed upon them, you might consider a "Traditional Scouting" course.

 

For instance Baden-Powell's 1920 Wood Badge course is being offered by the (non-BSA) US Rovers on October 13th 16th 2006 at Caloosahatchee Park, Florida, for $76. See:

 

http://www.usrovers.org/woodbadge/index.htm

 

It says that the deposit deadline was August 1st, but if the course is not closed out they might be flexible. At any rate you can get on a mailing list for next year's course.

 

Similar non-WOSM Traditional Wood Beads courses are also offered in Canada and the UK (non-WOSM Baden-Powell training is usually called "Wood Beads" rather than "Wood Badge").

 

Kudu

 

[Jeffrey H 25]

Kudu,

 

I appreciate your comments but the Scoutmaster Handbook that you quoted from is dated from 1972. This edition of the Handbook was the beginning of the "new and improved" Scouting program which proved to be a disaster. The BSA has long since abandoned that program and has moved back to an emphasis on outdoor skills.

 

--Jeff