Webelos To Scouts Transistion

[Twocubdad]

While Bob White and I are busy making up over on the thread about OA membership, that topic has drifted to that of Webelos-to-Scouts Transistion. That is important enough to merit it's own thread, not just tacked on to an acane debate about adult OA membership.

 

Web2Scout transition is arguably one of the most serious problems facing BSA. The drop out rate between the end of Webelos and the first year in Boy Scouts is astronomical (I don't recall the exact figure, so I won't guess). As a rising Webelos II den leader, this is something which concerns me and which I've been studying lately.

 

I had made a point of the importance of building relationships between packs and troops. According to the Webelos-To-Scout Transition pamphlet, "The key factor to improved Webelos transistion is the ongoing working relationship of the leaders of a Cub Scout pack and a Boy Scout troop. Ideally, a community organization would have both a pack and troop with leaders who work together to help move Webelos Scouts into a Boy Scout troop the same way schools move students from elementary school to middle school."

 

While I'll let Bob make his own points, where we disagreed somewhat was whether a pack should concentrate on one or two troops or broadly work with many. I think there is advantage in working closely with a small number of troops, building relationships with the leaders, Scouts and den chiefs. We can be much more effective if we concentrate our efforts with one or two units.

 

From a practical standpoint, trying to arrange troop visits and campouts with a half-dozen or more troops is virurally impossible. Our area is very heavily populated with Scout units. Literally, I could be at any one of eight troop meetings inside a 15 minute drive. That may not be a concern in a town with only a couple troops.

 

That's not to say I would do anything to discourage a boy from visiting with any troop he likes. As I mentioned on the other thread, our pack's last class of Webelos went into five different troops. Don't care where they join as long as they join!

[sst3rd]

Right or wrong. Rules or no rules. What I seen in our area is a direct connection with the Pack and Troop sponsored by the same institution. Our Council has set up the majority of the units that way. Yes, there are exceptions; Troops with no Packs, Packs with no Troops. However, Troop and/or Pack leaders have forged relationships over the years. Where I've seen the exceptions, are Webolos leaders who steer their Scouts to another Troop other than the directly connected one; Webolos leaders who visit several Troops; and parents who are aware that they can take their Webolos Scout anywhere "THEY" want to take them.

[dsteele]

I can provide an example of what Twocubdad is talking about when he refers to being able to drive to 8 troops within 15 minutes. Perhaps that district's experience can illuminate how we dealt with the issue.

 

I served the district as it's executive (my title and responsibilities changed several times, but I was always primarily associated with the district,) for 8 years. There were always 19-22 troops and teams in this town of 30,000 people. That's a lot of troops for a town that size. It was a scouting town with a 38% Boy Scout density. I was not a heavily Mormon town and is in the midwest.

 

In one of my early years, we tried to tie each troop to a pack or packs. It didn't work. In a town that small with that kind of market penetration, it all comes down to matching the philosophy of the troop with the philosophy of the boy and his parents. As Twocubdad points out, you can't do that without communication. Whether that communication is up to the district, the troop/pack, the charter partner, or just the word of mouth associated with a community that size it will happen.

 

So, when the membership chairman and I tried to provide "feeder pack" (which is a midwest term) or "Brother pack" which sounds like an eastern term -- what you call it doesn't make much difference -- and direct traffic that way, we encountered resistance and realized the mission was foolish in our particular case.

 

What we set out to do in successive years was to track graduating Webelos and find out which troops they joined. We also wanted to provide a list of troops to all graduating Webelos and allow the kids to make their own decisions (with parental and leader input, of course.)

 

The first obstacle we ran into was the inability of the BSA system to identify second year Webelos. This was when our council was on the old Xenix system. It hasn't gotten any better with Scoutnet. I looked at the computer system (Xenix) and realized that the system let you run rosters and separate by date of birth. We were then able to get a list of "suspected" graduating Webelos. Scoutnet doesn't keep track of second year Webelos either, but it does let you run lists by the age of the kid -- so this plan still works.

 

Then, once we had the "raw" list of kids of the right age, the memebership committee started calling Cubmasters to hone the list down and weed out kids with incorrect birthdates, held back a grade, etc.

 

Once we had a clean (as clean as possible given human error) the membership committee and I did two things ... actually closer to three. 1) We put together a list of the graduating webelos and distributed it to all the troops. The rules were they could contact whichever kids they wanted to contact and invite them to visit the troop. Never mind feeder packs, never mind traditions, it was all for getting the Webelos to join a troop. From the other side, we sent the Webelos a letter (it happened to be from me) that was signed personally by me and included a list of all troops in the district and the Scoutmaster's home phone number as well as the meeting place, time and location. The youth were encouraged to shop around for the troop where they felt they fit the best. 2) We kept track of the transfer forms as they came into the office. Any kid who had not transitioned to a troop by September was called and asked why -- okay, so we often ended up asking the parent, but we checked into the answers. Our goal was to account for every graduating Webelos. And we did. 3) We had a joint Webelos/Boy Scout activity and told the troops that it was a recruit whoever you can night.

 

Boy, were some Scoutmasters mad at me! I didn't mind because most of the angry Scoutmasters were the ones who had grown accustomed to getting whatever number of graduating Webelos without having to do anything -- like keep the program exciting for young men, giving them the chance to lead, etc.

 

I'll admit that a couple of the weaker troops died because of this plan. One even went through a charter-partner forced unit leadership change because of it -- but the bottom line is that 80% of the graduating Webelos in the first year of this philosophy entered a troop. In the second year, we crossed over 87% of the graduating Webelos.

 

Then, I'll admit, we took the process for granted and it fell back to the hight 70%'s. That was seven-5 years ago and I don't know how the district is doing today.

 

My advice to those who want to make sure Webelos to Scout transition happens is:

 

1) Do your homework and find out who should transition

2) Realize that every troop has a slightly different personality and so do boys. Give them every opportunity to shop around.

3) Track transfer applications and follow up on the missing ones.

4) Through the commissoiner staff and district committes, make sure the recently crossed-over boys feel welcome and intrinsic in their new troop.

 

DS

[Scoutmaster Ron]

DS

I like your idea of contacting Webelos that are graduating, how were you able to come up with the list of boys?

[Laurie]

My "job" this year is to help in this very area. Throwing this new kid into this is scary! Just kidding, but I agree--it's a big job, a vital one.

 

I was sent a "dropped Scouts" list by my DE. It was a list of Webelos who were not listed as Scouts the following year. The records are available; my suggestion would be to contact your DE or registrar.

 

We have a pack and a troop in the same charter organization. Oddly enough, they have separate unit commissioners. 3 years ago 1 boy bridged into the troop; the next 2 years zero boys bridged; this past year 6 boys bridged. We have 5 boys in Webelos II now, and I have been in touch with the SM and the Web den ldrs, and our goal is to have Scouts as den chiefs this year and to have 3 activities planned together (right now tentatively planned are a swim night, a hike, and the camping trip). Some of the Scouts offered to help with Arrow of Light this year, and I'm taking them up on that. I am asking for help with particular activity badges as well, for I just learned that our Web II den is very far behind--and they are expected to bridge in February. I am very excited about this, but I know it will take hard work. Though our pack and our troop work together (this year anyway ), we are open to and would support any boy in going to other troops. We simply don't know of any that are local, so we aren't involved with them. Quite frankly, one relationship to build is what we need to address first. When my son bridged this past year, I heard of complaints within the troop and within the pack about how things could have and should have gone smoother. I use that as constructive criticism, and I look forward to a smooth transition this year. Our Web II den leader was exhausted, had tired out, but I am fairly new, LOVE Webelos best of all, and as Asst CM found this listed as part of my job description. In talking with this leader, I learned that he needed support, and I wanted to be involved more with boys too, so we are teaming up. His knowledge of the boys and of having done this before teamed up with my enthusiasm and excellent resources should help a lot.

(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[Fat Old Guy]

In my troop, I've noticed that nearly 100% of the Scouts who drop out in their first year are boys who didn't go to Summer Camp as Cub Scouts.

 

 

[Mike F]

Our cross-over rate is terrible, too, but I don't have the numbers.

I've talked to a number of parents and potential scouts, but they feel like they've "already done scouts" or "it's boring."

One idea we're trying to get off the ground is to put together a slide show of scouts from the local area in action. Summer camp, high-adventure trips, campouts, etc. This will be composed of pictures from many different troops. Important that they all be local troops.

Then we'll take this slide show to Pack Meetings to show the Cubs & Webelos the fun with emphasis that this is all going on right here in our community -- and you can be part of it. Follow up with small teams (from different troops) to visit Webelos 2 dens early in their last year.

With the wide-spread use of digital cameras and photos developed on CD-ROM, it hasn't been hard to collect a great bunch of pictures.

[sctmom]

My son crossed over a year and a half ago. Went to summer camp, had a great time. Came back from the grandparents when school started and decided he HATED scouts. We have even tried a few more troops. Just not what he wants.

 

As a Webelos leader, I set up one group visit for the Webelos with a troop. The Boy Scouts took the Webelos outside and did some fun things with them. Problem was the parents were inside talking to the Scoutmaster. The parents never saw what took place. Also, we should have visited a few "normal" meetings to get a better feel of the troop. Some new scouts and parents were not happy at the first campout, very surprised with some troop attitudes.

 

Fat Old Guy, I'm not sure what you mean about boys not attending Summer Camp as Cubs. Where I live we don't have Cub Resident Camp.

 

A lot of parents and scouts do see Webelos as "the end" and a "nice place to stop".

 

Personally I think a more interaction between the troops and the packs would help. Have the troops help with B&G, Pinewood Derby, campouts, and other activities. The younger boys say "hey, I wanna be like that big guy over there" and parents say "hey, I want my son to have that experience of teaching younger boys".

 

Want a list of the Webelos? Call the pack! As a Cub leader, I will quickly invite your troop to pack events and meetings.

 

[Laurie]

Yes, many parents do see Webelos as the end. Therefore, we are presenting it as the beginning this year by showing our own enthusiasm in helping to prepare the boys for Scouts.

[evmori]

Cubs & Webelos needs to be shown as the beginning and Boy Scouts & Venturing as the end. Boy Scout Troops MUST be actively involved with the local Cub packs. If they aren't then there will be a large drop off.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[sctmom]

Because of what you said Ed, I am surprised at the lack of interest by troops about the changes in Webelos requirements and AOL requirements. Seems like troop adults would be very interested in that. Yes, it will be a few years before you see the result, but the troops need to know what they can do for Webelos.

 

 

[evmori]

sctmom,

Don't be suprised. Boy Scout leaders aren't the ones who administer the Webelos program!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[sctmom]

I know Boy Scout leaders aren't the ones who administer the Webelos program, but as a Troop leader don't you care what the Webelos are being taught?

I'm a little fed up with adults from Troops who forget all about the Cub program. Everything is seen from their little world of Troop level. I have seen it on this forum for a long time and I see it locally.

 

[evmori]

Yes we do want and at least I need to know what they are taught. But, I just need to know what the requirements are so I know what to expect when they crossover. I don't really care that they changed.

 

It's not a lack of interest. For us, (Boy Scout leaders) it is just information.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SR540Beaver]

Ed, yeah but......it is the Troops who complain about getting or retaining Cubs at crossover. Which makes it largely a troop problem. The Cub leaders can do everything in their power to interest the boys in moving up, but if there isn't an equal interest or momentum from the troop side, half the battle is lost. It needs to be seamless between the pack and the troop and requires more effort than just information.